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Jesus has a God!

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Whenever I get into debate with Trinitarians they always avoid the fact that Jesus has a God whom he says is his Father. Jesus calls God "my God" several times in Scripture. Even after he was raised from the dead to sit at God's right hand he calls the Father "my God".

I started this thread specifically to address the fact that Jesus has a God and to give Trinitarians the opportunity to explain how this works in their Theology of one God as they never address it and always avoid it when I mention it in other posts
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Whenever I get into debate with Trinitarians they always avoid the fact that Jesus has a God whom he says is his Father. Jesus calls God "my God" several times in Scripture. Even after he was raised from the dead to sit at God's right hand he calls the Father "my God".

I started this thread specifically to address the fact that Jesus has a God and to give Trinitarians the opportunity to explain how this works in their Theology of one God as they never address it and always avoid it when I mention it in other posts
We have no idea if what is quoted in the gospels was actually said by Jesus.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Whenever I get into debate with Trinitarians they always avoid the fact that Jesus has a God whom he says is his Father. Jesus calls God "my God" several times in Scripture. Even after he was raised from the dead to sit at God's right hand he calls the Father "my God".

I started this thread specifically to address the fact that Jesus has a God and to give Trinitarians the opportunity to explain how this works in their Theology of one God as they never address it and always avoid it when I mention it in other posts
the problem with trinitarians who believe that jesus is exclusively part of the trinity and not the rest of god's begotten, creation, got it wrong. there was no thing made that wasn't made of it.

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
the problem with trinitarians who believe that jesus is exclusively part of the trinity and not the rest of god's begotten, creation, got it wrong. there was no thing made that wasn't made of it.

Colossians 1:16
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Trinitarian scholars are by no means unintelligent people. Nor would they like to be considered as such.

The Trinitarian position states that the Son is the second member (person) of God and that he took upon himself human flesh and became a man. However, they say, he did not become another person, nor did he become two persons by taking on flesh.

So, if the one person who is the son has a God then he cannot be the God. Unless he took upon himself another person or became two persons (one who is the God and the other one who has a God).

You do not have to be a scholar to understand that.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Trinitarian scholars are by no means unintelligent people. Nor would they like to be considered as such.
i didn't claim trinitarians were unintelligent. i claimed some got the fact of the matter wrong. the son, begotten, is all things created by the ONE GOD having three aspects.

The Trinitarian position states that the Son is the second member (person) of God and that he took upon himself human flesh and became a man. However, they say, he did not become another person, nor did he become two persons by taking on flesh.
some trinitarians claim that. jesus claimed that what you do unto the least of these you do unto me. revelation also proclaims that those who destroy the earth will be destroyed. you cannot destroy the earth without destroying the earthlings who live on it.

As [the Venetian rabbi] Leon da Modena noted, it was not the doctrine of the Trinity in itself that was objectionable (after all, in the kabbalistic doctrine of the Sefirot there is much talk of three, and more, aspects of [the] Deity) but its elaboration, in which the Trinity is composed of three divine Persons, one of which became incarnate in a human being. The medieval thinkers who held Christianity but not Islam to be an idolatrous faith did so particularly because of the worship of the Cross; to bow before an icon or a crucifix was held to be akin to bowing to idols.

So, if the one person who is the son has a God then he cannot be the God. Unless he took upon himself another person or became two persons (one who is the God and the other one who has a God).

You do not have to be a scholar to understand that.
actually a corpuscle within the body is still considered part of the whole.


in my father's house, there are many mansions. if it were not so, i would have told you.

I am in the Father and the Father is in me.
 
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Spartan

Well-Known Member
There is so much evidence for the Trinitarian position that anyone arguing against it is blind. Most of those who argue against it are from the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, or the Mormons cult. And they will ignore or spit into the wind when faced with evidences such as the following:

Jesus Must be Jehovah
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
There is so much evidence for the Trinitarian position that anyone arguing against it is blind. Most of those who argue against it are from the Jehovah's Witnesses cult, or the Mormons cult. And they will ignore or spit into the wind when faced with evidences such as the following:

Jesus Must be Jehovah

Wow, people sure do see things differently. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but to me what you presented in the link is evidence AGAINST there being a Trinity. To me it looks like evidences that would show the Messiah as being the one and only God. (although that would be YHWH not Jehovah)
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Wow, people sure do see things differently. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but to me what you presented in the link is evidence AGAINST there being a Trinity. To me it looks like evidences that would show the Messiah as being the one and only God. (although that would be YHWH not Jehovah)
Nope. It just shows that Jesus is ALSO God.
 

Nimos

Well-Known Member
Whenever I get into debate with Trinitarians they always avoid the fact that Jesus has a God whom he says is his Father. Jesus calls God "my God" several times in Scripture. Even after he was raised from the dead to sit at God's right hand he calls the Father "my God".

I started this thread specifically to address the fact that Jesus has a God and to give Trinitarians the opportunity to explain how this works in their Theology of one God as they never address it and always avoid it when I mention it in other posts
Whenever someone have to explain how the trinity works its always something extremely strange.


trinity2.gif



And have to agree with you, when you read the bible you really don't get the impression that a trinity exists.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Whenever someone have to explain how the trinity works its always something extremely strange.


trinity2.gif


And have to agree with you, when you read the bible you really don't get the impression that a trinity exists.

I've been reading the Bible for almost a half century and the Trinity makes more sense than anything else, especially the revisionist theology of the JW's and Mormons, etc.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
What's more, if people don't believe Jesus is the Great I AM (John 8:58, etc.) they may well die in their sins.

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” - John 8:24
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Of course Jesus had a God. He was a Jew, for crying out loud! He prayed to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob three times a day. He went into the Synagogues and worshiped. He offered sacrifices in the Temple. He kept the Holy Days.

He observed the 613 laws of Israel's covenant with Hashem, even the Oral Torah. When the rich man asked how to obtain eternal life, his reply was to keep the commandments.

He had a deeply personal relationship with Avinu, our Father, and the idea that God was our Father certain did not originate with him. He composed an ending to the Standing Prayer, commonly known as the Lord's Prayer.

You can't get more Jewish than Jesus and it is a tragedy that he has been pulled out of Judaism and remade into a Greek Christ and, God forbid, a deity.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
The real nonsense is the JW's cult version, denying the deity of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

I agree that version is nonsense.

But the Trinity is nonsensical also. Because there is only one God. There can't be 3 separate distinct persons that are each God. Because that would be 3 Gods.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
What's more, if people don't believe Jesus is the Great I AM (John 8:58, etc.) they may well die in their sins.

"I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.” - John 8:24

I agree with this. But now in that light, read these verses. Because YHWH is the Great I AM.

Isaiah 41:4 YHWH said I am he.

Isaiah 48:12 Once again he said I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Isaiah 44:6-8 YHWH said there was no God beside him.

Isaiah 43:10-13 YHWH said I am he. He said there was no God formed before him, and neither would there be after him.

Isaiah 44:24 YHWH said he made all things. He said he did it alone, and by himself

Isaiah 45:6 He said I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no God beside me.

(There is only one God, and he took on flesh, and shed blood for man's sin.)
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
I agree that version is nonsense.

But the Trinity is nonsensical also. Because there is only one God. There can't be 3 separate distinct persons that are each God. Because that would be 3 Gods.
There's ONE GOD MANIFESTED IN THREE PERSONS. THAT'S BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY.

Did you ever have an answer for these?

Jesus Must be Jehovah

John 1:23 quotes Isaiah 40:3 as saying John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the LORD (Jehovah). John prepared the way before Jesus so Jesus must be LORD (Jehovah).

In Isaiah 44:8 God is the only Rock. Psalm 18:31 says, “Who is the Rock except our God”? I Corinthians 10:4, identifies Jesus as the Rock. Jesus must also then be God the Rock.

Isaiah 44:24 says that God (Jehovah) is the one who has made all things. Colossians 1:16, speaking of Christ, says that “all things were created by Him and for him”. Jesus must therefore be Jehovah God.

In Jeremiah 10:10 it says “the LORD (Jehovah) is the true God”. I John 5:20 states that Jesus is the “true God”. Jesus must be the true God.

Isaiah 43:10,11 says that “I, even I, am the LORD; and there is no savior besides Me. Jesus is the Savior (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, etc., etc.). Jesus must be God the Savior.

Jehovah knows all things (Psalm 147:5). Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah alone is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23). Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13). Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:10). Only God is the sanctifier of men. Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our peace (Judges 6:23). Jesus is our peace (Ephesians 2:14). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6). Jesus is our righteousness. (Romans 3:21-22; 1 Corinthians 1:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be delivered / snatched out of His hand (Deuteronomy 32:39). Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters” (Ezekiel 43:2). Jesus’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters” (Revelation 1:15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is present everywhere.(Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27); Jesus is omnipresent (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s nature does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8).

Jehovah is the only God we are to “serve”(2 Kings 17:35); Jesus (identified as the Creator in Colossians 1:16-17) is to be served (Colossians 3:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy (Isaiah 8:12b-13). Jesus, as Lord, is to be set apart as holy (1 Peter 3:14b-15a).

Jehovah’s glory is not to be given to another (Isaiah 42:8). Jesus shares Jehovah’s glory (John 17:5). Jesus must be Jehovah.

God’s name is Jehovah (or Yahweh—YHWH – Isaiah 42:8). Jesus has Jehovah’s name (John 17:11; John 16:14-15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the “mighty God” (Jeremiah 32:17-18; Isaiah 10:20-21). Jesus is the “mighty God”
(Isaiah 9:6) who is “Almighty” (Revelation 1:7-8).

Jehovah is “the first and the last” (Isaiah 44:6; 48:12). Jesus is the “first and the last” (Revelation 1:17-18; 22:12-13, 20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 1:8; Revelation 21:6-7). Jesus is the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 22:12-13, 20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s title is “the Holy One” (Isaiah 47:4). Jesus is “the Holy One” (Acts 3:14; John 6:69). Jesus must be Jehovah, the Holy One.

Jehovah is the “stumbling stone” of Israel (Isaiah 8:13-15). Jesus is the “stumbling stone” of Israel (1 Peter 2:6-8). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the great Judge who gives life to whom he wishes and who renders to each man “according” to his “deeds” (Psalm 98:9; Deuteronomy 32:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus is the only judge who gives life to whom he wishes and renders to each man “according” to his “deeds” (John 5:21-22; Revelation 2:18, 23). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the great “shepherd” who leads his people to “the spring of the water of life” (Psalm 23:1-2; Revelation 21:6-7). Jesus as the “shepherd” of His people, leads them “to springs of the water of life” (John 10:11-18; Revelation 7:17). THERE IS ONLY ONE SHEPHERD –John 10:16.

Jehovah is “Lord of Lords” (Deuteronomy 10:17). Jesus is “Lord of Lords.” (Revelation 17:14; 19:16). The Father is Lord of all (Matthew 11:25; Acts 17:24). Jesus is “Lord of all.” (Acts 10:36). THERE IS ONLY ONE LORD (Jude 4) .

Jehovah created the universe (Psalm 102:25-27). Jesus created the universe (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-19; Hebrews 1:10-12). THERE IS ONLY ONE CREATOR. (Isaiah 44:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
'Jesus must be Jehovah"?

Actually, it's YHVH. And YHVH is the name of God.

Are all three persons named YHVH?

Let's see.....one person named YHVH, and another person named YHVH, and yet another person named YHVH?

That makes three YHVH's.

There is only one LORD (YHVH) God.

"Hear O Israel, YHVH Elohim is one YHVH." Deu 6:4
 
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