We Can't Fix the World, So Now What?

The Reverend Bob said:

There are always going to be detractors and while you may think or believe you have this wonderful plan to save the world if only people would listen there are people who are going to feel and believe that every solution you put forward from Laissez faire to Thanos snapping a mugger is not going to cut it with them, they'll look at your beliefs about what you think we should do and feel that it just doesn't suit them or meet their needs. Some are going to view you as not only wrong but also crazy or maybe even evil

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No problem. Sooner or later they'll all realize I'm right...

OK, now seriously, what part of "do what you think is right" didn't you understand? That's the only thing you can actually do for the World. If you don't think it's worth doing anything to improve the World, then do nothing. But at least don't do any harm to innocent people.

BTW, thinking that Earth has no solution doesn't give good vibes to the World.

Jim said:

I don’t think that the leading global monopoly players would be able to monopolize the world’s human and natural resources the way they do, if there weren’t so many people at all economic levels selling their capacities to the highest bidder, trying to advance themselves in the same monopoly game. As my wife once observed, “Everybody hates rich people and wants to be just like them.”

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Selling their capacities is the only way to survive. I don't see how people would be able to choose otherwise.

And no, I wouldn't ever like to be like the IMF and World Bank usurers; lending money that countries can't ever return (with the complicity of corrupt politicians of those countries of course). They aren't just "rich", they make countries broke and get richer in the process. e.g. I'm not envious of Lagarde with her "old people are living too much" philosophy.

In any case I would prefer to be in the position of Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. At least AFAIK they didn't make their wealth by starving children to death.

The Reverend Bob said:

1 in a 100 people are either malignant narcissists/psychopathic or sociopathic, that is 1 in a 100. That is a fairly sizable portion of the population and they work overtime to make things worse. So this whole idea that there is good, light and love in everyone is very, very flawed.

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Its the reason why the Bible teaches that we need God's Kingdom. Most who identify as "Christians" don't even know what it is....or how it "comes"....or how it accomplishes God's will being "done on earth as it is in heaven".

In the Book of Daniel. there is a prophesy concerning the march of world powers that are identified so that we know who they are and when they rule.

In the second chapter of Daniel, the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar had a very disturbing dream. He woke with great anxiety but could not remember the contents of this one particular dream at all. Just when he was about to do away with all the wise men of Babylon who failed to tell him what the dream was about, Daniel asked for a little time to consult his God over the matter. Since God inspired the dream, he also gave Daniel the interpretation.

The King saw an immense image of a man with a head of gold, breast and arms of silver, a belly and thighs of copper, legs of iron, and the feet mixed with iron and clay. Then a huge stone (not made by human hands) was seen to strike the image on its feet, causing the whole thing to crumble into dust and be blown away. The stone that struck the image then became a mountain and filled the whole earth.



Daniel told the King that he was represented by the head of gold...the Babylonian world power of the day.
This was to be followed by Medo-Persia who conquered the Babylonian empire in one night, then in time, they were overthrown by Greece, then Rome and out of the ashes of Rome sprang Britannia, who in the end times allied itself with the USA.

The stone that struck the Image Daniel identified as God's Kingdom" (Daniel 2:44) We are living in the time of the feet of clay. There are no more Gentile world rulers after these.

That prophesy tells us that world peace will never come about by human endeavor, but God's Kingdom will "come" by force and eradicate all forms of corrupt human rulership and replace it as this world's only ruling authority. And it's coming, ready or not.

The Reverend Bob said:

I agree there are people who are working hard to improve the lives of others, but there is only so much they can do and some of them burn out and get overwhelmed at the amount of need that is out there and cannot stand up to the opposition that is out there, like the forces of greed, prejudice and hypocrisy.

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It won't matter how hard people work to make the world a better place...they can not and will not ever accomplish it. Fallen human nature will not let them. The problems just keep getting bigger and bigger.

The Reverend Bob said:

Talk to some homeless advocates, they'll tell you the truth about every NIMBY they have had to face in order to get service to the homeless.

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No government in existence cares for its citizens adequately as individuals. To see the rate of homelessness increasing among the middle classes is horrifying! Yet the leaders of these affluent nations throw billions of dollars at things that don't matter but have no money to spend on the people who do.

If the money spent on taking lives was equal to the money spent on saving lives, we would see a completely different picture.....but even then, human selfishness and greed would ruin everything as it always does.

dianaiad said:

And your solution is...what, precisely?

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I don't personally have a solution but God does. Jesus taught us to pray for "God's Kingdom" to "come" and for his will to be "done on earth as it is in heaven". (See post #202 above for an explanation of God's Kingdom).

To decide that everybody else needs fixing according to your standards?

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Is that what I said? I was just pointing out that the reason why humans will never settle their differences is because they are waiting for everyone else to fix the problems according to *their* standards. It will never happen....agreement will never be reached.
We humans all have to conform to God's standards....that is the only way to achieve unity.

See, just because the solution is difficult...even well nigh impossible...doesn't mean it's not the correct solution.

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God has the only correct solution. We need to conform our thinking to his, not wait for humans to get their act together. This is the reason for this life. We learn by experience way better than we learn by just being told.

When Adam disobeyed his God and brought death on the human race, he thought he knew better. But God allowed us all to see where an independent course would lead us....and here we are. We've done things *our* way for thousands of years and nothing has worked.....God will bring his Kingdom rulership back to this earth and show us the benefits of obeying his rules, which were only ever there for our benefit anyway. If the first humans had only obeyed their God in the first place, we would never have had to live through this difficult object lesson.

Jim said:

((Talking about totals and averages of economic measurements diverts attention from the issues that I think need the most attention. One example is the gap between the extremes. Another is how much people are actually enjoying life. Another is how to stop sectarian hatreds from blowing up the world.))

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Talk about moving the goalpost...

Jim said:

I see some possible common interests between us, so I want to tell you some of my thoughts. Sometimes I see people consciously and conscientiously trying to free themselves from prejudices and delusions, to learn to value all people everywhere and care what happens to them, and to practice fellowship and collaboration across the widest divides. I think that movement is growing and spreading and might continue to do so until it overpowers the forces of disintegration, and from that point on the world will start to improve for all people everywhere.

I’m trying to help that happen by continually trying to improve my own character and the way I live my life; trying to learn to be a better friend to more people; trying to learn to tell stories to inspire others to do the same; trying to help with the growth and spread of healthier, happier and more loving communities; and bringing all that up for discussion sometimes.

Some specifics of what I’m practicing and promoting:
- Spending time with some of the people whose ideas and interests seem the most contrary to mine, trying to see things their way and to see some good in what they’re doing.
- Freeing myself from all beliefs.
- Distancing myself as far as possible from all campaigns of denunciation and intimidation.
- Trying to avoid, in public discussions, using words that don’t communicate anything, for example like “science,” “scientific,” “God,” and the names of religions as labels for people’s beliefs.
- Ignoring the imaginary lines of alienation that people draw between groups and categories of people defined by what they say they believe.

I think of everything that people do, from the best to the worst, as part of human nature. We’ve learned to domesticate plants and animals, and I don’t see any reason to think that we can’t domesticate ourselves.

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I'm mostly an observer - trying to understand how we have arrived at where we are today as a species - and, for me at least, many religious beliefs (but not all) are definitely the problem with regards many issues. Until the message from these is toned down and becomes more tolerant (not seemingly likely though), I can't see much change occurring. And several threads have arisen on this topic. My interest has never been about what religions teach and more about how they affect others who don't share such beliefs.

wizanda said:

Yeshua didn't act as an attonement, you've been lied to by the pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon)...

The wise should know it isn't skepticism, it is what the Bible teaches, that each person's sin is their own.

Like the idea some people are anti-christ's teachings is something that can be fixed.

Sick people need repairing, trying to get our own back, only makes the problems worsen.

Prison makes worse crimnals.

In my opinion.

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Help me understand, the NT writers, Peter, John and Paul, all lied. This is thorny as John and Peter contributed heavily to two gospels, let alone over 2/3 of the NT! Who SHOULD I listen to?

And... we should NOT imprison unrepentant paedophiles... ?

BilliardsBall said:

Who SHOULD I listen to?

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We're judged by following the teachings of Yeshua (Matthew 7:24-27); when these Pharisees contradict him, we can't follow both.

BilliardsBall said:

we should NOT imprison unrepentant paedophiles... ?

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We should invest in fixing reality; not waste time leaving it to fester.

In my opinion.

wizanda said:

We're judged by following the teachings of Yeshua (Matthew 7:24-27); when these Pharisees contradict him, we can't follow both.

We should invest in fixing reality; not waste time leaving it to fester.

In my opinion.

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Why do you think Peter and John, etc. were Pharisees--since throughout the gospels and Acts, they were outside or put outside when councils met?!

The Reverend Bob said:

Just about everyone of us can see that this world is full of problem, so much so that some of us think humanity may be at the brink of extinction. We all have our personal catalog of the various problems we believe the world faces, my own personal list of troubles includes: War, famine, poverty, greed, homelessness, sexism, racism, capitalism, YouTube unboxing channels and the Kardashians.

It is in my opinion that the world would be a much better and much friendlier place in we could only solve all these problem. So my mind cooks up plans on how we should deal with these problems, like this guy did:

But is it truly my responsibility to fix all the world's problems? Why in the world do we take it upon ourselves to think that if only we did something, we could fix it? So, it seems to be this wanting to fxi the world is a temptation, a desire that leads us into sin and suffering. We desire control, we desire people conform to our beliefs and we desire that it all goes our way. And soon it is our way or the highway and the boots start marching a long as they are been doing throughout history. And it looks like the best laid plans of mice and men come to naught once again.

So now what do we do? Is there anything we can fix? I can assure you there is somethings can do, particularly we should firstly follow Socrates dictum "Know thyself" and believe one the reason we love to look at the world's problems and center ourselves on fixing them instead of examining our own lives and fixing what is going on inside of us as individuals is because the darkness outside of us seems more easy to deal with, because we have all these messiahs, politicians and others saying they have solution and we are in great company with the other legion of followers.

But to "know thyself" is to go on a lonely journey into the dark recesses of the self and lay our eyes bare on our own human nature and acknowledge that we are all evil, all egotistical and we are all disgusting. It is a frightening journey.

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The cumulative world as a collection of all human beings along with each human beings own internal world. . .

I’d have to salvage my own internal world or be salvaged first before I could try and assist others and their internal worlds. And any assistance of another’s world would have to be completely unforced. The bad self/ego would have to die. Some may not want to be fixed and I respect that, and some may not need to be fixed, and some may not be fixable. What may require any fixing being based upon the harm/suffering of oneself or others being caused.

Until one no longer has a bad I/ego, evil. And outgrows this cumulative world and its entertainments. Then the realization of what a subtle machine, labyrinth, farm factory, zoo, circus, and insane asylum of a cumulative world one still exists in.

BilliardsBall said:

Why do you think Peter and John, etc. were Pharisees-

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The Gospel of John is by the Sanhedrin, it is what they perceived Yeshua to be saying.

Simon was called peter (a small stumbling stone) as he would mislead people.

Pharisee is a religious belief system, not specific people... Thus Simon's doctrine was Pharsaic.

Simon, John, and Paul all taught what Yeshua stood against (Mark 7:6-13, Matthew 23:27-38), the oral tradition "the death of the righteous can atone for the sins of that generation", where they literally accuse God of premeditated murder, which is Balaam teaching (Micah 6:5-8).

In my opinion.

The Reverend Bob said:

Just about everyone of us can see that this world is full of problem, so much so that some of us think humanity may be at the brink of extinction. We all have our personal catalog of the various problems we believe the world faces, my own personal list of troubles includes: War, famine, poverty, greed, homelessness, sexism, racism, capitalism, YouTube unboxing channels and the Kardashians.

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You forgot to include all reality tv shows (not just the Kardashians), all game shows and all talent shows.

agorman said:

Selling their capacities is the only way to survive. I don't see how people would be able to choose otherwise.

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You missed the whole point of what I said. What I said was about people selling their capacities to the highest bidder.

The Reverend Bob said:

But is it truly my responsibility to fix all the world's problems? Why in the world do we take it upon ourselves to think that if only we did something, we could fix it?

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Reminds me of a story from a Buddhist author who was down in Mexico and was walking the beach after a storm. On the beach were thousands of starfish drying out and dying.

A local man was walking the beach as well, picking up one starfish after another and threw them back into the sea. When the author walked by him and said something on the order to the other man as to whether what he's doing will make much of a difference in the long run, the man picked up one starfish, threw it back into the sea and said "I guess it made a difference to that one."

IOW, sometimes we need to think small.

wizanda said:

The Gospel of John is by the Sanhedrin, it is what they perceived Yeshua to be saying.

Simon was called peter (a small stumbling stone) as he would mislead people.

Pharisee is a religious belief system, not specific people... Thus Simon's doctrine was Pharsaic.

Simon, John, and Paul all taught what Yeshua stood against (Mark 7:6-13, Matthew 23:27-38), the oral tradition "the death of the righteous can atone for the sins of that generation", where they literally accuse God of premeditated murder, which is Balaam teaching (Micah 6:5-8).

In my opinion.

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The NT is univocal in doctrine! Either Paul et al were spot on or Yeshua was wrong, too.

BilliardsBall said:

Either Paul et al were spot on or Yeshua was wrong, too.

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Actually Yeshua prophiced the Wheat (Synoptic Gospels) Vs the fabricated Tares (John, Paul, Simon the Stone (petros)).

In the parable of the Seed Sower, the Stony ground is plural of petros.

Christianity is just a form of Pharisaic Judaism; where in the early church history, the real followers of Yeshua, the Ebionites, rejected that Christ was a sacrifice - Yeshua (Salvation) ended sacrifice, and through understanding the name we get remission of sin (Yehoshua = Lord Saves).

In my opinion.

wizanda said:

Actually Yeshua prophiced the Wheat (Synoptic Gospels) Vs the fabricated Tares (John, Paul, Simon the Stone (petros)).

In the parable of the Seed Sower, the Stony ground is plural of petros.

Christianity is just a form of Pharisaic Judaism; where in the early church history, the real followers of Yeshua, the Ebionites, rejected that Christ was a sacrifice - Yeshua (Salvation) ended sacrifice, and through understanding the name we get remission of sin (Yehoshua = Lord Saves).

In my opinion.

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The wheat and the tares is referring to people responding or not responding to the gospel.

If your version of the Ebionite "gospel" is "saved "by understanding" you are gnostic, and gnostic heresy is reproved by most of the NT writers and by Jesus Christ.

BilliardsBall said:

If your version of the Ebionite "gospel" is "saved "by understanding" you are gnostic

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The Ebionites (Poor ones) believed what Yeshua taught: by giving up wealth, following the commandments and his teachings, that is how we gain eternal life (Matthew 19:16-21)...

Following Pharasic doctrine leads to Hell (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 23:13).

BilliardsBall said:

The wheat and the tares is referring to people responding or not responding to the gospel.

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Matthew 13:24-25 KJV 24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

The good seed is planted by Christ in the parable of the Seed Sower; the tares are planted along side by the Pharisees (John, Paul, Simon the stone).

In my opinion.

The Reverend Bob said:

Just about everyone of us can see that this world is full of problem, so much so that some of us think humanity may be at the brink of extinction. We all have our personal catalog of the various problems we believe the world faces, my own personal list of troubles includes: War, famine, poverty, greed, homelessness, sexism, racism, capitalism, YouTube unboxing channels and the Kardashians.

It is in my opinion that the world would be a much better and much friendlier place in we could only solve all these problem. So my mind cooks up plans on how we should deal with these problems, like this guy did:

But is it truly my responsibility to fix all the world's problems? Why in the world do we take it upon ourselves to think that if only we did something, we could fix it? So, it seems to be this wanting to fxi the world is a temptation, a desire that leads us into sin and suffering. We desire control, we desire people conform to our beliefs and we desire that it all goes our way. And soon it is our way or the highway and the boots start marching a long as they are been doing throughout history. And it looks like the best laid plans of mice and men come to naught once again.

So now what do we do? Is there anything we can fix? I can assure you there is somethings can do, particularly we should firstly follow Socrates dictum "Know thyself" and believe one the reason we love to look at the world's problems and center ourselves on fixing them instead of examining our own lives and fixing what is going on inside of us as individuals is because the darkness outside of us seems more easy to deal with, because we have all these messiahs, politicians and others saying they have solution and we are in great company with the other legion of followers.

But to "know thyself" is to go on a lonely journey into the dark recesses of the self and lay our eyes bare on our own human nature and acknowledge that we are all evil, all egotistical and we are all disgusting. It is a frightening journey.

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People have been trying to fix the world. I don't think we actually know how. Folks in history have managed to convince others they know how to fix the world. Through religion, politics, democracy, communism.

Maybe when I was younger, I though man could fix the world. However I've come to realize I don't know how to do that.

When it comes to fixing myself, don't really know how to do that either. Even though I try hard I never really accomplish the ideal goal I have in my head. Perfect world, all in my head, reality continues to resist "my" idea of perfection.

Seems I'm down to supporting the small circle of people I know the best I able able to. Help where I can help and maybe life will be a little better for them for a time.

Who says we can't fix the world?

Although it is painstakingly slow, the world IS getting better.

Consider for example the following wonderful moral advances that have happened in the last century that have no precedent:
*Doctors without borders
* International Red Cross
* Cessation of International War
* International Court
* And more

Dr Robert Sapolsky, an admitted lifelong pessimist, says that such things, against his better judgment, give him hope.

wizanda said:

The Ebionites (Poor ones) believed what Yeshua taught: by giving up wealth, following the commandments and his teachings, that is how we gain eternal life (Matthew 19:16-21)...

Following Pharasic doctrine leads to Hell (Matthew 5:21, Matthew 23:13).

Matthew 13:24-25 KJV 24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

The good seed is planted by Christ in the parable of the Seed Sower; the tares are planted along side by the Pharisees (John, Paul, Simon the stone).

In my opinion.

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Couple of problems spring to mind:

1) In Jesus's case, He insisted we EXCEED the Pharisees in behavior!

2) I've never met a works-based believer who could tell me EXACTLY, or even inexactly, WHAT/WHICH extreme behaviors I must do to be saved, for example, how much of my wealth must I give to be saved? Surely I would give that IMMEDIATELY!

3) It is a dangerous (and in the Ebionite case, obvious) doctrinal problem to build doctrines around parables, arguably, I've seen a dozen other takes on the seed parable. Be cautious!