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Love For All, Hatred For None

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
God does not have a biological son because God cannot have offspring.

And you know this for a fact, do you? He can have whatever he wants to, according to his will....does he somehow have limitations that we are unaware of?

Jesus was the Son in the sense that He was born of the substance of God, but not in a physical sense, in a spiritual sense.

By his own admission, Jesus was God's biological son, who came down from heaven and who was a glorious spirit being before his human birth. You do understand the reason for his human birth I assume?

John 3:13....
"No man has ascended into heaven but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man.”

John 6: 46-51....
"46 Not that any man has seen the Father, except the one who is from God; this one has seen the Father. 47 Most truly I say to you, whoever believes has everlasting life.
48 “I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness and yet they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven."


John 17:5
"So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was."

Again, why wouldn't the Bible teach about Jesus, it was scripture that applied to the Dispensation of Jesus, and the Old Testament was about Moses and other Prophets who came before Jesus.

Jesus was the "prophet greater than Moses" who was to come. There are no others mentioned. (Deuteronomy 18:18-19) Jesus taught us all we need to know.

The Bible prophesies Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah but it is not about them.... They have their own scriptures.

According to your beliefs perhaps....but not according to any Jewish or Christian scripture.

Who do you think He is then, a figment of the Muslim's imagination? o_O

I believe that any person emerging from the Muslim faith has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus Christ.
The three Abrahamic faiths bear little resemblance to one another. And even today are not exactly bosom buddies.

I fully agree with that, Jesus sacrificed Himself for our sins and then His work was done... Now go tell the Christians who believe that Jesus in the same body is going to drop down out of the sky, with trumpets and angels and do more work.

I do not need to tell the "Christians" any such thing. Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. (1 Peter 3:18) He would never be of flesh and blood again. Any "Christian" who believes that flesh and blood can exist in heaven has no idea what scripture teaches.

The different religions do teach different doctrines because those doctrines are man-made, not from God. They also have different teachings, because different social teachings are needed in every new age. But the spiritual teachings of all the great religions are essentially the same and they are renewed in every new age when a new religion is revealed. The essence of religion is the spiritual teachings and the spiritual teachings of all religions are compatible since they are the same.

That's why wars are fought over them...its why people hate one another because of their differences.
Where do you get the idea that God can operate through religious systems that he condemned centuries ago? If all religions had the same author, then why did God punish his own people for adopting their beliefs and practices?

What is it that Jesus actually taught that you think we ignore? o_O I do not know of anything.

That is pretty obvious. It would be a long list. But perhaps "ignore" is the wrong word? Perhaps its just ignorance of what Christ actually taught?...meaning that you just have no idea what he taught and you make sweeping statements based on what someone told you he said.

If you knew what the Bible says, you could never accept a prophet spawned from Islam in the first place. Has it escaped your notice that most of the refugees in the world are fleeing from Muslim countries? Why are they running away? Like Christians and Jews.....their leaders are not living up to the teachings of their own faith.

Why did God send Ishmael and his mother away from Abraham's household? Because he was NOT the one through whom the promises were to be fulfilled. Only Isaac was to receive the blessing. Because Ishmael was taunting his younger brother, it demonstrated that he had no respect for God's arrangement. The nation that came from Ishmael were enemies of Israel....and they still are.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Exactly....but we cant see the truth unless God reveals it. (John 6:65)

I am currently reading the 'Summons of the Lord of Hosts' by Baha'u'llah.

What the world awaits is revealed in that book, very loud, very clear and for all that want to hear and see. It is a clear 'love for all and hate for none' revelation

No one will take up that invitation unless God grants them the heart to do so, faith is a gift and not something we have earned or deserve. Why God gives that heart to people that were not looking, or were not interested, God only knows?

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

"..Give ear, O peoples of the earth, unto that which the Pen of the Lord of all nations commandeth you. Know ye of a certainty that the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation in the Law that hath branched out from this Most Great Ocean. Haste ye thereunto at Our behest. We, verily, ordain as We please.....

Regards Tony
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
"..Give ear, O peoples of the earth, unto that which the Pen of the Lord of all nations commandeth you. Know ye of a certainty that the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation in the Law that hath branched out from this Most Great Ocean. Haste ye thereunto at Our behest. We, verily, ordain as We please.....
This, IMHO, is not love for all. It is too forceful.

There is an expression in america, "I Love you to pieces." It's actually not good to love someone to pieces. Sometimes parents dominate, suffocate, and attempt to control their children. They do it out of love, but it is too much love. If the parent wants their children to be close to them, then "Loving them to pieces" is counter-productive. Love that is too forceful pushes people away.

There is another expression: "If you love some one, set them free." I think that is a healthier approach to love. Not "Give ear" "Know ye" "Haste ye" "We ordain". All of that is dominant language. It doesn't represent freedom.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This, IMHO, is not love for all. It is too forceful.

There is an expression in america, "I Love you to pieces." It's actually not good to love someone to pieces. Sometimes parents dominate, suffocate, and attempt to control their children. They do it out of love, but it is too much love. If the parent wants their children to be close to them, then "Loving them to pieces" is counter-productive. Love that is too forceful pushes people away.

There is another expression: "If you love some one, set them free." I think that is a healthier approach to love. Not "Give ear" "Know ye" "Haste ye" "We ordain". All of that is dominant language. It doesn't represent freedom.

I understand why you see it that way. I am currently watching the news about America and Iran.

The key here is what is offered by Baha'u'llah is 100% a free will choice. What God does is give us what we need to do, to protect us from our own actions. We are never forced to change.

Consider all we need to do is submit to that wisdom to find peace. It is not God that carries out the punishment for that neglect, it is us doing it to each other.

Regards Tony
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I understand why you see it that way. I am currently watching the news about America and Iran.

The key here is what is offered by Baha'u'llah is 100% a free will choice. What God does is give us what we need to do, to protect us from our own actions. We are never forced to change.

Consider all we need to do is submit to that wisdom to find peace. It is not God that carries out the punishment for that neglect, it is us doing it to each other.

Regards Tony
The question is: what do you want, Tony? Do you want to push people away?

I know that you don't.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The question is: what do you want, Tony? Do you want to push people away?

I know that you don't.

I have found that this life is not about what I want. How to have no aim, but to mirror all that is good, is a life journey, that takes all ones effort.

My actions may push people away and as such I can try to change those actions. Then there are those actions that repel people that are not of my doing, the repeling is a cause of their actions.

This story of Abdul'baha (known as the master) gives thoughts;

"..Hear how he treats his enemies. One instance of many I have heard will suffice. When the Master came to 'Akká there lived there a certain man from Afghanistan [Haji Siddiq], an austere and rigid Mussulman [Muslim]. To him the Master was a heretic. He felt and nourished a great enmity towards the Master, and roused up others against him. When opportunity offered in gatherings of the people, as in the Mosque, he denounced him with bitter words.

'This man,' he said to all, 'is an imposter. Why do you speak to him? Why do you have dealings with him?' And when he passed the Master on the street he was careful to hold his robe before his face that his sight might not be defiled. Thus did the Afghan. The Master, however, did thus:

The Afghan was poor and lived in a mosque; he was frequently in need of food and clothing. The Master sent him both. These he accepted, but without thanks. He fell sick. The Master took him a physician, food, medicine, money. These, also, he accepted; but as he held out one hand that the physician might take his pulse, with the other he held his cloak before his face that he might not look upon the Master. For twenty-four years the Master continued his kindnesses and the Afghan persisted in his enmity...."

There are many stories such as this.

Thus One saw what Abdul'baha did as pushing people away, it took 24 years to realize that it was his own thoughts that were doing that pushing.

Regards Tony
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I do not think humanity is spiritually advanced enough to know how to treat each other. Its a reality of unknowns.

I can only love those I truly know.

To hate someone takes knowing them.

By default i try to take the positive with people i do not know.

To me there are two kinds of hate: 1) justified cause 2) malice which has no cause or justice.

My basic moral truth is to love every virtue and eschew every vice.

So even people i have cause to hate for being evil will someday be conquered of their evils, and redeem to what is good. If evil gets its deserve, than i think that is the only road to repentance. Punishment has its necessity.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I am currently reading the 'Summons of the Lord of Hosts' by Baha'u'llah.

What the world awaits is revealed in that book, very loud, very clear and for all that want to hear and see. It is a clear 'love for all and hate for none' revelation

I am curious as to why people who may have been raised with "Christian" beliefs, seek knowledge outside of Christ's teachings? I can only assume that the Bible was not enough? But if one has real knowledge of its contents, there is no need to search for answers elsewhere. The answers are in the Bible, not the churches.

The Bible is one story from Genesis to Revelation. It takes us from creation, to the fall of man.....the identity of the serpent who by lying and deception gained influence over human thinking and actions.....the choosing of a nation who would be used to produce God's means of salvation, and to act as a test case in having a legal system instituted by God, governing their actions.....Jesus' ministry and teachings were left to the world after him....a list of prophesies pertaining to our own time, including those that take us 1,000 years into the future were included in the OT as well as in what Christ taught. The Revelation was from God, conveyed by Jesus through an angel to the apostle John.

There was to be nothing added, according to the closing words of that Revelation......so why do people like yourself, good-hearted individuals with a genuine desire for peace, look elsewhere for their guidance and instruction? Baha'i's put so much store in the words of a mere mortal whose identity and inspiration cannot be verified as coming from God. Satan can tell people what they want to hear, transforming himself into "an angel of light".
One of the dangers of the times to come, was the existence of false christs. How do you tell the truth from the claims of a good con artist? (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

No one will take up that invitation unless God grants them the heart to do so, faith is a gift and not something we have earned or deserve. Why God gives that heart to people that were not looking, or were not interested, God only knows?

Yes, but God also says that if we love a delusion, then we will be permitted to keep it. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) God allows us the freedom of will that will be the true expression of who we really are. He will not correct those who have no wish to be corrected.
We see this in Jesus' ministry. He did not try to correct the incorrigible religious leaders who were ingrained with their own interpretation of God's word and didn't want to hear that they may be wrong. Shooting the messenger was what they had always practised. (Matthew 23:37-39) So unless God opens the heart to a new understanding, the majority of people living today are merrily traveling the superhighway to death. (Matthew 7:13-14) The "cramped and narrow road" is inconvenient and restrictive.....which is why it is called "cramped and narrow" obviously. People see that as a threat to their freedom....but is it?

The Summons of the Lord of Hosts | Bahá’í Reference Library

"..Give ear, O peoples of the earth, unto that which the Pen of the Lord of all nations commandeth you. Know ye of a certainty that the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation in the Law that hath branched out from this Most Great Ocean. Haste ye thereunto at Our behest. We, verily, ordain as We please.....

If only people would "give ear" just to the teachings of Jesus Christ, they would find the teachings of those of other faiths, redundant.

I never doubt your sincerity Tony.....but I cannot accept the words of your chosen prophet as more important, or as a replacement or substitute for those of Jesus Christ. The Bible is my only guidebook because it contains all I need, and because it never tells me to expect the words of any other prophet after Jesus, as coming from God.

As for "dispensations"......in God's word, there are only two.....Jewish and Christian. Both were required for what was provided in their respective eras. No others are mentioned.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am curious as to why people who may have been raised with "Christian" beliefs, seek knowledge outside of Christ's teachings? I can only assume that the Bible was not enough? But if one has real knowledge of its contents, there is no need to search for answers elsewhere. The answers are in the Bible, not the churches.

Christ's Love is all embracing.

John 16:12-14 "12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come..."

That was Christ who is now speaking as the Father, Baha'u'llah.

Notice that Baha'u'llah came as the 'Spirit of Truth', offered the most great peace, the 'Day of God' and was rejected. Baha'u'llah has showed us the One God of all true Faith and what is to come out of our rejection of that One God.

Again, it is a Love that knows no hate and embraces all that is good. All good is from God, all evil is from our own selves.


"...Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand. Every act ye meditate is as clear to Him as is that act when already accomplished. There is none other God besides Him. His is all creation and its empire. All stands revealed before Him; all is recorded in His holy and hidden Tablets....."

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The love for who? Not All. It is love for one.

Love for God is Love for all, it can be expressed in no other way.

If it is not expressed that way, it is not of God.

This is the greatest lesson from Gods Messengers. Their lives are given for all to embrace our oneness, that is who we really are.

That is why you are attracted to the concept. Finding the source within us allows all hate to disolve, or to become a positive force for good.

Hate is for an action, not for any person.

Regards Tony
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Love for God is Love for all, it can be expressed in no other way.

If it is not expressed that way, it is not of God.

This is the greatest lesson from Gods Messengers. Their lives are given for all to embrace our oneness, that is who we really are.

That is why you are attracted to the concept. Finding the source within us allows all hate to disolve, or to become a positive force for good.

Hate is for an action, not for any person.

Regards Tony
Please consider: what happens if obedience results in pushing people away? that does not nurture them. and this is the root of the philosophical deviation between us. If you want to discuss it further, I am happy to do so. Please send me a PM. I think you are a good person. But I do think your actions are counter productive for what you want to accomplish. It really has nothing to do with what your purpose is. I may or may not agree with it at all. But if I can help you, I am at your service.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Love for God is Love for all, it can be expressed in no other way.

If it is not expressed that way, it is not of God.

This is the greatest lesson from Gods Messengers. Their lives are given for all to embrace our oneness, that is who we really are.

That is why you are attracted to the concept. Finding the source within us allows all hate to disolve, or to become a positive force for good.

Hate is for an action, not for any person.

Regards Tony
Where are God's messengers? All I see are jerkoffs like Jerry Falwell, Kenneth Copeland (a true dirtbag down the road from me), Pat Robertson and a host of others charlatans milking elderly believers for their money.

8 Richest Pastors in America
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Please consider: what happens if obedience results in pushing people away? that does not nurture them. and this is the root of the philosophical deviation between us. If you want to discuss it further, I am happy to do so. Please send me a PM. I think you are a good person. But I do think your actions are counter productive for what you want to accomplish. It really has nothing to do with what your purpose is. I may or may not agree with it at all. But if I can help you, I am at your service.

Lots of actions are counterproductive for what people intend them to be. It's an odd human condition. People brag about personal achievement to impress people. Most people aren't impressed. Coaches work on high class athletes to 'relax'. In swimming, and track, for example, at a certain stage, the harder you try the worse you do. Putting in all that extra effort makes you lose technique.

In proselytising faiths, many of the ex - _________ s leave because of excessive proselytising, and them coming to a real distaste for it. So although you may gain a convert or two, you also lose many.

It's like the turtle and the hare story to some degree, and it takes wisdom to figure out what really works, and that's also individualised.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
True, but the human race isn't known for being overly loving or enlightened. Ideas are great, actions are greater.

Obviously we can't act for all of humanity, but we can act for our immediate circle of friends, family, neighbours, etc. About all we can do to help all of humanity is to give to international charities, and not personally contribute to the chaos.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Obviously we can't act for all of humanity, but we can act for our immediate circle of friends, family, neighbours, etc. About all we can do to help all of humanity is to give to international charities, and not personally contribute to the chaos.
True and most people do. This is also the origination of most hate; people trying to protect their families from the harm of outsiders.
 
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