The reality of human sexuality: Dr. Debra Soh

Saint Frankenstein said:

...I didn't say your posts were lies, but that they're very incorrect and show an ignorance of the subject.

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Wrong again, but thanks for the insults. Attitudes like yours are certain to cause most people problems in life, especially in a professional capacity. Now, if they are working as strippers, prostitutes or dealers, that's not a problem but if they are working in an office, for the government or in some other professional capacity, it will certainly limit their professional growth and job opportunities. YYMV

false·hood /ˈfôlsˌho͝od/ noun

1. the state of being untrue.
   "the truth or falsehood of the many legends that surround her"
   • a lie.
     
   • lying.
     

Road Warrior said:

Thanks. Have you read Desmond Morris' "The Naked Ape"?

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Of course, years ago...

Evangelicalhumanist said:

Of course, years ago...

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Same here, back in 1977 while I was working on my BA degree.

Road Warrior said:

Wrong again, but thanks for the insults. Attitudes like yours are certain to cause most people problems in life, especially in a professional capacity. Now, if they are working as strippers, prostitutes or dealers, that's not a problem but if they are working in an office, for the government or in some other professional capacity, it will certainly limit their professional growth and job opportunities. YYMV

false·hood /ˈfôlsˌho͝od/ noun

1. the state of being untrue.
   "the truth or falsehood of the many legends that surround her"
   • a lie.
   • lying.

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I have no idea what you're talking about. And don't whine about insults with what you're saying about trans people. You're basically trying to present us all as victims of some nefarious agenda to wipe out gays and lesbians. You really don't seem to believe that trans people exist.

Each country has its own rules and juridic traditions . I respect other countries

The most important thing is the psychological wellness of all LGBT people.

So I think a secular approach must always prevail.
And interference from religious entities must be condemned.

This because the Pope recently said that nature is perfect

Saint Frankenstein said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. And don't whine about insults with what you're saying about trans people. You're basically trying to present us all as victims of some nefarious agenda to wipe out gays and lesbians. You really don't seem to believe that trans people exist.

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Please stop with the false accusations. If I've done anything as you've falsely accused, please cite the post. Additionally, I've clearly not only stated trans people exist, but that they are rights like all other American citizens.

Estro Felino said:

The most important thing is the psychological wellness of all LGBT people.

So I think a secular approach must always prevail.
And interference from religious entities must be condemned.

This because the Pope recently said that nature is perfect

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I partially agree; the most important thing is the psychological wellness of all people. Most people who are angry or hateful have a psychological issue. Their sexuality may be a factor due to social issues, but not as a causal factor of their problems. Example: being gay isn't a mental issue, it's a sexual preference. Growing up gay in a homophobic society can induce mental issues since the person's self-esteem is adversely affected by a constant onslaught of repugnance.

Road Warrior said:

Please stop with the false accusations. If I've done anything as you've falsely accused, please cite the post. Additionally, I've clearly not only stated trans people exist, but that they are rights like all other American citizens.

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So you say, but you paint all transitions of minors as being a form of conversion therapy. So you are basically saying that transsexual youth don't exist. Or that even if they do exist, they must be barred from medical treatment until the damage of the wrong puberty has been done.

Now, what I recommend is that more research needs to be done and that there needs to be more controls of a kind to make sure the best interests and needs of the patients are being represented. That way we can cut down people transitioning who don't really need to (which is already rare and transphobes exaggerate it) while still allowing young people with transsexualism to get the treatment they need.

Saint Frankenstein said:

So you say, but you paint all transitions of minors as being a form of conversion therapy. So you are basically saying that transsexual youth don't exist. Or that even if they do exist, they must be barred from medical treatment until the damage of the wrong puberty has been done.

Now, what I recommend is that more research needs to be done and that there needs to be more controls of a kind to make sure the best interests and needs of the patients are being represented. That way we can cut down people transitioning who don't really need to (which is already rare and transphobes exaggerate it) while still allowing young people with transsexualism to get the treatment they need.

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So no quotes backing up your false accusations? Figures.

Note the key word bolded: Minors. Minors don't know what they are. That's the point. If a 13 year old wanted to go climb a mountain all alone with no training, what responsible adult would say "Sure, kid, if that's what you truly believe"? If a kid was depressed and wanted to commit suicide who would say "Sure, kid, if that's what you truly want to do"? Yes, give them counseling. Yes, educate all kids about sex, gender, society and self-esteem. Don't be letting do something that may be wrong for them and can't be reversed. If they want to do it as an adult, then it's on them.

Road Warrior said:

So no quotes backing up your false accusations? Figures.

Note the key word bolded: Minors. Minors don't know what they are. That's the point. If a 13 year old wanted to go climb a mountain all alone with no training, what responsible adult would say "Sure, kid, if that's what you truly believe"? If a kid was depressed and wanted to commit suicide who would say "Sure, kid, if that's what you truly want to do"? Yes, give them counseling. Yes, educate all kids about sex, gender, society and self-esteem. Don't be letting do something that may be wrong for them and can't be reversed. If they want to do it as an adult, then it's on them.

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Transsexuals know what gender they are. I knew I was a boy from my earliest memories. If you didn't know what your gender was as a kid, I'm sorry but you're a rare exception to the rule.

Road Warrior said:

Wrong again, but thanks for the insults. Attitudes like yours are certain to cause most people problems in life, especially in a professional capacity. Now, if they are working as strippers, prostitutes or dealers, that's not a problem but if they are working in an office, for the government or in some other professional capacity, it will certainly limit their professional growth and job opportunities. YYMV

false·hood /ˈfôlsˌho͝od/ noun

1. the state of being untrue.
   "the truth or falsehood of the many legends that surround her"
   • a lie.
   • lying.

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I get so tired of people that do not know how to use dictionaries properly. P!ease note that "lie" is a possible synonym. That does not mean that it is always a synonym. To be sure you should have checked out what a "lie" is. You would have seen that it is the making of an untrue statement along with "an intent to deceive". That means that one can offer falsehoods without lying. When one's falsehoods are made public the proper action is to acknowledge one's error and amend it, not to defend one's action with false outrage.

Saint Frankenstein said:

Transsexuals know what gender they are. I knew I was a boy from my earliest memories. If you didn't know what your gender was as a kid, I'm sorry but you're a rare exception to the rule.

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Being a "tomboy" is not the same as saying "I'm male but attracted to girls for sexual reasons" at age 4.

The fact you don't know most kids know their gender is interesting. More interesting is that you claim to know what their sexual preference will be when they hit puberty.

Road Warrior said:

Being a "tomboy" is not the same as saying "I'm male but attracted to girls for sexual reasons" at age 4.

The fact you don't know most kids know their gender is interesting. More interesting is that you claim to know what their sexual preference will be when they hit puberty.

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This is another post where I have no idea what you're trying to say. Gender identity becomes developed by age 3, IIRC. I recall quite clearly perceiving myself as a male around that time.

Saint Frankenstein said:

This is another post where I have no idea what you're trying to say. Gender identity becomes developed by age 3, IIRC. I recall quite clearly perceiving myself as a male around that time.

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No worries.

Road Warrior said:

"Gender" gets muddled. Gender roles is what we are actually talking about such as "the man is the breadwinner and the woman's place is in the home". That's a social construct and in the defintion. I fail to see why so many people have a problem understanding this point:

gen·der /ˈjendər/ noun

1. either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.

Note the second definition. That is a modern social construct and have no biological correlation to sex of the individual. It's about the psychology of the individual. Do you understand that over 90% of all people are straight? If 90% of human beings are biologically one thing, what would you call the other 10%?

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Right, gender does get muddled. It's muddled because human social identity is dynamic and--especially in this postmodern era--is in continual flux.

I am unsure of your second point. If I understand what you're saying, you're suggesting that since 90% of humans are biologically straight (how do you know this?), then gender is a predetermined psychological condition with 10% abnormality.

But I do not accept that gender is something that can be tied easily to statistics. For one, where do the statistics come from? What kind of sample size has been taken and when (given fluctuating social acceptance of the issue at hand), and have the prevailing cultural stereotypes and roles been taken into account.

And so, I ask again: How do you know a person's gender when just meeting them on the street?

Road Warrior said:

Some perspective please: That person was constantly trolling me and now, after he reported me, I've been asked to put him on ignore.

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Fair enough, but I was pointing out that by starting the thread by referring to anyone who would argue your point as "idiots" is sparking an emotional response and suggests an emotional reason on your part. Again, I appreciate the scientific perspective you are endorsing, but a major part of science is interpreting the data and applying it to the human perspective.

Guitar's Cry said:

Right, gender does get muddled. It's muddled because human social identity is dynamic and--especially in this postmodern era--is in continual flux.

I am unsure of your second point. If I understand what you're saying, you're suggesting that since 90% of humans are biologically straight (how do you know this?), then gender is a predetermined psychological condition with 10% abnormality.

But I do not accept that gender is something that can be tied easily to statistics. For one, where do the statistics come from? What kind of sample size has been taken and when (given fluctuating social acceptance of the issue at hand), and have the prevailing cultural stereotypes and roles been taken into account.

And so, I ask again: How do you know a person's gender when just meeting them on the street?

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Dude, it's basic biology. There's an old political saying which seems to apply here: "All Republicans believe everything is genetic except homosexuality while all Democrats believe nothing is genetic except homosexuality". Obviously times change, but science deniers remain. Sad.

Demographics of sexual orientation - Wikipedia

As for gender roles, since we're agree that's a social construct, within an enclosed environment such as a commune, boys can told to wear dresses and girls shorts but that doesn't make them gay, straight or transgender. They are what they are despite the clothing.

Road Warrior said:

Dude, it's basic biology. There's an old political saying which seems to apply here: "All Republicans believe everything is genetic except homosexuality while all Democrats believe nothing is genetic except homosexuality". Obviously times change, but science deniers remain. Sad.

Demographics of sexual orientation - Wikipedia

As for gender roles, since we're agree that's a social construct, within an enclosed environment such as a commune, boys can told to wear dresses and girls shorts but that doesn't make them gay, straight or transgender. They are what they are despite the clothing.

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The first thing I see on your linked source: "Recent critiques of these studies have suggested that, because of their dependence on self-identification, they may have undercounted the true prevalence of people with a history of same-sex behavior or desire." (Yes, it needs a citation, but it makes a good point, especially given the variance from different regions.)

I agree with you that who you are is who you are despite the clothing. But this is because I distinguish between sex and gender. Basic biology: Sex=physical manifestations based on sexual dimorphism. Gender: social roles and identities tied into sexual dimorphism.

And Biology is messy! Think of it: Humans are capable of changing our gender even without changing our sex. I can say "Hi, ma'am!" to someone one the street, and they may very well have all of the physical features of a male. I would never know, and it wouldn't change how I perceive them. What difference does it make?

And, we are capable of changing our physical sex! A person born a male may have a brain structure suggesting another sex and eventually have their body changed to match that identity. We can play with hormones, mold the secondary sexual characteristics as well as the primary, and flip the script on what gender is or isn't on a physical level.