The Dalai Lama and Religious Pluralism

sealchan said:

I am as close to a real world example of this, I suppose, as one can get. I started with a double major approach but ended up with a more ambiguous bachelors then masters degree. What I lost in the process was job marketability. What I did achieve, however, was personal spiritual transformation. I found myself through the process of writing my two theses and I left my higher education with that deep sense of satisfaction and inner conviction. I turned my education into a spiritual journey.

My spiritual practice, primarily, is to study epic story in written and visual forms across time and cultures, interpret dreams, and establish as unmaterialistic a life as I can muster. Furthermore, I have found a mode of spiritual play, what Jung might call alchemy, which is endlessly satisfying to me. It comes in the form of playing modded Minecraft in a comprehensive way as a process of discovering and progressively developing an "elegant, holistic and conservational logistics". This provides my psyche, which is a logical designer, to grapple with a comprehensive approach to managing practical needs and necessities in such a way as to promote my personal values and support a community approach.

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I don't pretend to understand your journey and experiences much, but great to see a brief glimpse of it.

The Reverend Bob said:

Atheism is not a religion.

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Atheism may not be a religion, but stitched together with Christianity you have something as stitched together as any syncretism

danieldemol said:

Atheism may not be a religion, but stitched together with Christianity you have something as stitched together as any syncretism

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Atheism and Christianity are not even in the same category. What tenets of the atheistic "religion" am I stitching together with Christianity? If anything I am the exact opposite of syncretistic, since I am not adding something from another religion into my religion but taking out those things which I deem foreign to my religion out of my religion.

adrian009 said:

I don’t think New age beliefs and practices are necessarily syncretic. If they are, they draw upon Dharmic Faiths and the occult. I’d say it’s the occult aspects that give them bad rap from some Christians. Is practising astrology, Taro card reading and clairvoyance unhealthy? Hard to say. There’s probably a few new agers experimenting with drugs to achieve a mysticism. I don’t think that’s healthy.

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Drugs and mysticism have gone together for thousands of years - its certainly not my cup of tea but I shouldn't wonder that some of the mystic Persian and Sufi poetry that Baha'u'llah himself quoted was first penned under the influence of cannabis or opium. (Did you know that at one time in the Ottoman Empire you could get your head chopped off for drinking coffee but opium was perfectly legal?).

Anyway, maybe you're right that syncretism is not the right word - eclecticism might be a better description...but I am pretty sure that the image of a pot-smoking hippy that you (and others) are painting here is not a fair stereotype of people who identify as "New Age". There don't seem to be many around here to defend themselves, perhaps they just don't think it is worth arguing about - and perhaps they have a point!

Vinayaka said:

I think perhaps because it's on the surface. It's not deep. When people do dig deeper, they do find the differences, and then that in turn leads to confusion. You can ask many a deeper question like on the nature of God, or even whether they believe in heaven/hell or reincarnation, and all you get is a nice smile and a shrug of 'it doesn't matter'.

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But do those questions really matter as much as what we do? They seem not to matter too much to Buddhists I have spoken to - and more than a handful of my Hindu friends would not be terribly interested in trying to define the "nature of God" - and 'heaven', to many, would simply be the condition of no longer feeling obliged to concern oneself about it...wouldn't it? I'm not saying its right - I can't do that - I can't help myself but ask and probe and question everything and try to puzzle out how it all fits together (at least most of the time anyway)...but the true 'mystic' doesn't do that - s/he's just in the moment - or rather BECOMES the moment - right?

siti said:

But do those questions really matter as much as what we do? They seem not to matter too much to Buddhists I have spoken to - and more than a handful of my Hindu friends would not be terribly interested in trying to define the "nature of God" - and 'heaven', to many, would simply be the condition of no longer feeling obliged to concern oneself about it...wouldn't it? I'm not saying its right - I can't do that - I can't help myself but ask and probe and question everything and try to puzzle out how it all fits together...but the true 'mystic' doesn't do that - s/he's just in the moment - or rather IS the moment - right?

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Yes, right. In dharmic faiths, dharma is key, and dharma is all about right action, not belief about God at all. Frankly I personally get bored with discussion of the nature of God.

Vinayaka said:

Yes, right. In dharmic faiths, dharma is key, and dharma is all about right action, not belief about God at all. Frankly I personally get bored with discussion of the nature of God.

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I began to understand my faith and my tradition far better when I removed God from the picture.

The Reverend Bob said:

I began to understand my faith and my tradition far better when I removed God from the picture.

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For me too, from the intellect. But on another level, not a chance.

Vinayaka said:

For me too, from the intellect. But on another level, not a chance.

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I was actually able to focus on the daily practice of my faith rather than on aspects like worship and prayer but focus on the parts where I put compassion and humility in the forefront as meaningful actions

The Reverend Bob said:

I was actually able to focus on the daily practice of my faith rather than on aspects like worship and prayer but focus on the parts where I put compassion and humility in the forefront as meaningful actions

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I'm pretty much there with you in that I strongly feel that actions are far more important than words.

adrian009 said:

Multiculturalism in the twenty first century forces peoples of different cultures, races, nations and religions to interact, work together, cooperate and associate closely with one another as never before. To what extent is religious pluralism healthy and when does it become contradictory and unhealthy?

When asked, "Don’t all religions teach the same thing? Is it possible to unify them?" the Dalai Lama said:

People from different traditions should keep their own, rather than change. However, some Tibetan may prefer Islam, so he can follow it. Some Spanish prefer Buddhism; so follow it. But think about it carefully. Don’t do it for fashion. Some people start Christian, follow Islam, then Buddhism, then nothing.

In the United States I have seen people who embrace Buddhism and change their clothes! Like the New Age. They take something Hindu, something Buddhist, something, something… That is not healthy.

For individual practitioners, having one truth, one religion, is very important. Several truths, several religions, is contradictory.

I am Buddhist. Therefore, Buddhism is the only truth for me, the only religion. To my Christian friend, Christianity is the only truth, the only religion. To my Muslim friend, [Islam] is the only truth, the only religion. In the meantime, I respect and admire my Christian friend and my Muslim friend. If by unifying you mean mixing, that is impossible; useless.

Religious pluralism - Wikipedia

What is your approach to religious pluralism? Do you like to associate closely with people that are very different from you? Can we avoid diversity in our lives? Would we be better to embrace it?

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Here in California people do associate more and more with people that are culturally very different than themselves. But, with the people I associate with, religion is never, if ever mentioned... and then I'm the one that brought it up.

I play tennis with lots of people that are here from India and China, and I suppose that they could be Hindus and Buddhists. But they never, ever talk about religion. Even the Sikhs, and everyone knows that they are Sikhs because of the turbans they wear, don't talk about there religion. So could it be that religion has become so private, and many times a cause for argument, that most people would rather not bring it up?

Oh, and I was in a Creative Writing Workshop and got to know one of the other people there, and later, when I went to a Baha'i fireside meeting, I saw him there and found out he was a Baha'i. So do even some Baha'is keep their religion secret... just to avoid arguments?

Anyway, are people getting along because they don't confront each other about their religious beliefs?

CG Didymus said:

Here in California people do associate more and more with people that are culturally very different than themselves. But, with the people I associate with, religion is never, if ever mentioned... and then I'm the one that brought it up.

I play tennis with lots of people that are here from India and China, and I suppose that they could be Hindus and Buddhists. But they never, ever talk about religion. Even the Sikhs, and everyone knows that they are Sikhs because of the turbans they wear, don't talk about there religion. So could it be that religion has become so private, and many times a cause for argument, that most people would rather not bring it up?

Oh, and I was in a Creative Writing Workshop and got to know one of the other people there, and later, when I went to a Baha'i fireside meeting, I saw him there and found out he was a Baha'i. So do even some Baha'is keep their religion secret... just to avoid arguments?

Anyway, are people getting along because they don't confront each other about their religious beliefs?

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I think many people want to live in peace and avoid conflict and contention. That’s why religion is avoided in day to day conversation, Baha’is included. On the other hand Baha’is are obliged to share Bahá’u’lláh’s Message to those who are receptive. It one of the main challenges faced by Baha’is who want to teach.

adrian009 said:

On the other hand Baha’is are obliged to share Bahá’u’lláh’s Message to those who are receptive.

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When did that morph into all out proselytising? In my school we're not obliged to at all, but we can if we want to.

Vinayaka said:

When did that morph into all out proselytising? In my school we're not obliged to at all, but we can if we want to.

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To teach our faith to others who are interested is a sacred duty for Baha’is. On the other hand Baha’is should be aware of the receptivity of others take my care not to teach those who are not interested or to misinterpret a little interest as being something more. Often Baha’is lack that wisdom. How Baha’is are in person and online are very different.

The Dunedin Hindu community held their first Pooja at our Baha’i Centre a few days back. The Hindu community chose to make it an occasion open to everyone. About 10 to 12 Baha’is came along primarily to make the Hindus welcome. There was no proselytising to my knowledge. We’re there to provide a venue and support for a community who will hopefully establish their own temple one day soon. Nothing more. The Indian cooking provided was a big incentive for the Baha’is too.

adrian009 said:

To teach our faith to others who are interested is a sacred duty for Baha’is. On the other hand Baha’is should be aware of the receptivity of others take my care not to teach those who are not interested or to misinterpret a little interest as being something more. Often Baha’is lack that wisdom. How Baha’is are in person and online are very different.

The Dunedin Hindu community held their first Pooja at our Baha’i Centre a few days back. The Hindu community chose to make it an occasion open to everyone. About 10 to 12 Baha’is came along primarily to make the Hindus welcome. There was no proselytising to my knowledge. We’re there to provide a venue and support for a community who will hopefully establish their own temple one day soon. Nothing more. The Indian cooking provided was a big incentive for the Baha’is too.

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Yes it varies by person. I still wonder how someone becomes an aggressive proselytiser (any faith) on the instructions just to share. On here, few, if anybody, asks first if others want to hear. Some do it because they believe others NEED to hear. That's all fine and dandy, if rather presumptuous.

I can't see people proselytising at such an event. Generally Hindu events like that would be open to everyone. Good to see sharing of facilities as well.

Vinayaka said:

Yes it varies by person. I still wonder how someone becomes an aggressive proselytiser (any faith) on the instructions just to share. On here, few, if anybody, asks first if others want to hear. Some do it because they believe others NEED to hear. That's all fine and dandy, if rather presumptuous.

I can't see people proselytising at such an event. Generally Hindu events like that would be open to everyone. Good to see sharing of facilities as well.

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Thank you.

I see it as being tied in with ego and a tendency towards tribalism (us and them). I'm right and your wrong. I've got the best religion and your religion is deficient. Its easy to become adversarial, especially on a forum such as this one where religion is debated.

Listening to others is the remedy. If we truly hear another we can make better sense of where another is coming from.

adrian009 said:

Listening to others is the remedy. If we truly hear another we can make better sense of where another is coming from.

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So true. I was reflecting/discussing with Boss this morning on tellers and askers. At the beginning of a conversation, there are two types of people ... (generally) those that want to tell the other person all about their lives, and those who want to ask the other person about their lives. You can tell a lot about a person from just observing that. I've learned the mantra 'Don't expect much." well.

I'm sure you deal with volunteers, as I do. That's another area of life that tells a lot. I have people offer to help me with my volunteer work. But it's all words. They 'offer' but as soon as you call them on it, it's just one excuse after another. I am no longer disappointed in that.

adrian009 said:

I think many people want to live in peace and avoid conflict and contention. That’s why religion is avoided in day to day conversation, Baha’is included. On the other hand Baha’is are obliged to share Bahá’u’lláh’s Message to those who are receptive. It one of the main challenges faced by Baha’is who want to teach.

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Unfortunately, some people in some religions are taught that it is of the utmost importance to try and convert people. Whether it is because they believe those people will burn in hell if they don't convert or it's because they believe those people are following false teachings, or both. But, even then, some people in those religions don't go out and "profess" their faith or "witness" to others.

One reason is probably that they are to insecure and they don't believe they can handle the questions that the people will ask. But, with those people that do "witness", they know they are going to be getting themselves into arguments. And they study and learn the things to say to people about their questions and arguments. I don't know how much good all those arguments do. And you've had your share here on the forums. But what do religious people do when they are obligated by their religion to go teach "The Truth"? And then what do they do when they meet up with people that are teaching a different "The Truth"?

Unfortunately, most Baha'is don't handle that situation very diplomatically. They come off sounding just like the people in the other religion... as if their religion is the only one right and the other one is wrong. And, even though that might be true, it don't bring those people in the other religions to a positive view of the Baha'i Faith. I've seen it here with Hindus, Sikhs and Shia and Sunni Moslems.

So how do you bring people from the different religions together when part of the Baha'i message is that those other religions have elements in them that aren't true? I'm sure you do it in your Ecumenical meetings. Are all the religions in those meetings acting as if they believe in Religious Pluralism? Or, do some of them really believe it? Or, are some just being "nice" for the sake of getting along with people from other religions, but deep down they believe their religion is better?

CG Didymus said:

Unfortunately, some people in some religions are taught that it is of the utmost importance to try and convert people. Whether it is because they believe those people will burn in hell if they don't convert or it's because they believe those people are following false teachings, or both. But, even then, some people in those religions don't go out and "profess" their faith or "witness" to others.

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The result of years of this type of proselytizing has resulted in many people avoiding discussing religion at all.

CG Didymus said:

One reason is probably that they are to insecure and they don't believe they can handle the questions that the people will ask. But, with those people that do "witness", they know they are going to be getting themselves into arguments. And they study and learn the things to say to people about their questions and arguments. I don't know how much good all those arguments do. And you've had your share here on the forums. But what do religious people do when they are obligated by their religion to go teach "The Truth"? And then what do they do when they meet up with people that are teaching a different "The Truth"?

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We all have varying degrees of 'The truth'. I think many fundamentalist Christians struggle with engaging with Baha'is and peoples of other faiths. They may be used to arguing with atheists but arguing with adherents from other faiths, especially Baha'is is extremely difficult as most are unfamiliar with what Baha'is believe.

Baha'is OTOH are taught to consort with peoples of all faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship and to have a world embracing view. We may be lousy at practising what we've been asked to do, but we should be doing what we can to live the life regardless.

CG Didymus said:

Unfortunately, most Baha'is don't handle that situation very diplomatically. They come off sounding just like the people in the other religion... as if their religion is the only one right and the other one is wrong. And, even though that might be true, it don't bring those people in the other religions to a positive view of the Baha'i Faith. I've seen it here with Hindus, Sikhs and Shia and Sunni Moslems.

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I acknowledge we Baha'is on this forum are not the greatest communicators or the best example of our faith. I try to do the best I can and encourage my fellow Baha'is to do the same. Its not easy and we just need to be patient with each other and persevere.

CG Didymus said:

So how do you bring people from the different religions together when part of the Baha'i message is that those other religions have elements in them that aren't true? I'm sure you do it in your Ecumenical meetings. Are all the religions in those meetings acting as if they believe in Religious Pluralism? Or, do some of them really believe it? Or, are some just being "nice" for the sake of getting along with people from other religions, but deep down they believe their religion is better?

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To have any belief inevitably means having a perspective of what is true or false, right or wrong that will contradict another's view. To be part of an interfaith community and being comfortable with religious diversity does not require that each of us agrees with everyone else. We do need to have respect and an appreciation for the beliefs of others, even those we disagree with. I see that my religion is best for me and may not be best for another. We don't need to have the same religion to work towards common aims and goals.