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"Something" and "Nothing" are both created by G-d

paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
dybmh said:
In order to attempt to answer your question, I will need to make a few assumptions.
That said:
According to the story, yes. God creates "nothing" by operating through restraint.
Click to expand...

There is no other claimant with reasons except G-d:
Arabic
ir
إِنَّ رَبَّكُمُ اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ يُغْشِي اللَّيْلَ النَّهَارَ يَطْلُبُهُ حَثِيثًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ وَالنُّجُومَ مُسَخَّرَاتٍ بِأَمْرِهِ أَلَا لَهُ الْخَلْقُ وَالْأَمْرُ تَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ
Transliteration
ir
Inna rabbakumu Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi yughshee allayla alnnahara yatlubuhu hatheethan waalshshamsa waalqamara waalnnujooma musakhkharatin bi-amrihi ala lahu alkhalqu waal-amru tabaraka Allahu rabbu alAAalameena
Sher Ali
ir
Surely, your Lord is ALLAH, who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, then HE settled Himself firmly on the Throne. HE makes the night cover the day, which it pursues swiftly, And HE created the sun and the moon and the stars - all made subservient by HIS command. Verily, HIS is the creation and the command. Blessed is ALLAH, Lord of the worlds.
al-A`raf 7:54
Right, please?

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Jedster said:
I think Kabir agrees with you.
According to Kabir, 'nothing' is the Divine abode.
See his poem

"
Oh Companion That Abode Is Unmatched,
Where My Complete Beloved Is.

In that Place There Is No Happiness or Unhappiness,
No Truth or Untruth
Neither Sin Nor Virtue.
There Is No Day or Night, No Moon or Sun,
There Is Radiance Without Light.

There Is No Knowledge or Meditation
No Repetition of Mantra or Austerities,
Neither Speech Coming From Vedas or Books.
Doing, Not-Doing, Holding, Leaving
All These Are All Lost Too In This Place.

No Home, No Homeless, Neither Outside or Inside,
Micro and Macrocosm Are Non-Existent.
Five Elemental Constituents and the Trinity Are Both Not There
Witnessing Un-struck Shabad Sound is Also Not There.

No Root or Flower, Neither Branch or Seed,
Without a Tree Fruits are Adorning,
Primordial Om Sound, Breath-Synchronized Soham,
This and That - All Are Absent, The Breath Too Unknown

Where the Beloved Is There is Utterly Nothing
Says Kabir I Have Come To Realize.
Whoever Sees My Indicative Sign
Will Accomplish the Goal of Liberation."

Kabir
Click to expand...
Thanks
What was the source of knowledge of Kabir? Was it science, please?

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Left Coast said:
Evidence absolutely makes things evident, that's the entire point of calling something evidence.

You made a claim, one which is not at all obvious and everyone does not agree with. If you want to be rationally justified in your claim, you need to have evidence to support your claim. Do you have any?
Click to expand...
It is like one is standing in the brilliant sunlight and ask evidence of the sun. There is no other reasonable claimant. Right, please?

Regards

____________
#19
 
dybmh

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
paarsurrey said:
There is no other claimant with reasons except G-d:
Arabic
ir
إِنَّ رَبَّكُمُ اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ فِي سِتَّةِ أَيَّامٍ ثُمَّ اسْتَوَىٰ عَلَى الْعَرْشِ يُغْشِي اللَّيْلَ النَّهَارَ يَطْلُبُهُ حَثِيثًا وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ وَالنُّجُومَ مُسَخَّرَاتٍ بِأَمْرِهِ أَلَا لَهُ الْخَلْقُ وَالْأَمْرُ تَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ رَبُّ الْعَالَمِينَ
Transliteration
ir
Inna rabbakumu Allahu allathee khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi yughshee allayla alnnahara yatlubuhu hatheethan waalshshamsa waalqamara waalnnujooma musakhkharatin bi-amrihi ala lahu alkhalqu waal-amru tabaraka Allahu rabbu alAAalameena
Sher Ali
ir
Surely, your Lord is ALLAH, who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, then HE settled Himself firmly on the Throne. HE makes the night cover the day, which it pursues swiftly, And HE created the sun and the moon and the stars - all made subservient by HIS command. Verily, HIS is the creation and the command. Blessed is ALLAH, Lord of the worlds.
al-A`raf 7:54
Right, please?

Regards
Click to expand...
This does indeed match my understanding, my friend.
 
danieldemol

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
"Hawkings"

He is also a human being , his words need not to be taken literally. Is he "infallible" (like the followers of Bahaullah claim Bahaullah's "infallibility", while he was just a human being not even a reputed scientist like Hawkings. Similarly Jesus was simply a human being but Christianity make us believe his "infallibility", totally wrong), please?

Regards
Click to expand...
Similarly the Ahmadiyya belief in the infallibility of the Quran and their Kalifah is totally wrong, please?
 
Last edited:
Guitar's Cry

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
paarsurrey said:
Kindly elaborate one's point of view, please.

Regards
Click to expand...

"Things" exist because they are defined by relationships in the mind from sensory data that discriminately pulls information from the environment. Without this, what is everything but "no thing"? The universe dissolves into undefined infinity. Nothing.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
paarsurrey said:
"Something" and "Nothing" are both created by G-d. Right, please?

Regards
Click to expand...
In order to create 'something', God would have to be 'something', no?

In order to create 'nothing', God would have to relate 'something' to the 'nothing' condition, which, if it's an authentic nothing, is not found anywhere in time or space, hence has no volume or duration or content of any kind and no qualities other than non-existence.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
dybmh said:
This does indeed match my understanding, my friend.
Click to expand...
Yes, one G-d commanded something/nothing to" be*", it started becoming/happening with the processes as per His commands, that we understanding being "created". Right, please?

Regards
____________
*Arabic
ir
إِنَّمَا قَوْلُنَا لِشَيْءٍ إِذَا أَرَدْنَاهُ أَن نَّقُولَ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ
Transliteration
ir
Innama qawluna lishay-in itha aradnahu an naqoola lahu kun fayakoonu
Sher Ali
ir
Our word concerning a thing, when WE will it, it is only that WE say to it, `Be,' and it is.
an-Nahl 16:40
 
Scott C.

Scott C.

Just one guy
paarsurrey said:
Then one cannot create something. Where one will house "something" if there is no "nothingness" around?
First one shall have to create "nothingness" to house one's "something", please.

Regards
Click to expand...

If nothingness needs to exist to house something, where will one house the nothingness he creates?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Guitar's Cry said:
"Things" exist because they are defined by relationships in the mind from sensory data that discriminately pulls information from the environment. Without this, what is everything but "no thing"? The universe dissolves into undefined infinity. Nothing.
Click to expand...
"environment"

Whatever environment/no-environment is needed G-d could create it*. Right, please?

Regards
___________
*Arabic
ir
بَدِيعُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَإِذَا قَضَىٰ أَمْرًا فَإِنَّمَا يَقُولُ لَهُ كُن فَيَكُونُ
Transliteration
ir
BadeeAAu alssamawati waal-ardi wa-itha qada amran fa-innama yaqoolu lahu kun fayakoonu
Sher Ali
ir
HE is the Originator of the heavens and the earth. When HE decrees a thing, HE only says to it `Be,' and it is.
al-Baqarah 2:117
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Milton Platt said:
Evidence, please?
Click to expand...
Science and or scientists don't claim that they had created the Big-bang/s and or the Black-holes, these existed already they have only discovered these phenomenon.
There is no other reasonable claimant except G-d. Right, please?

Regards
______________
*Arabic
ir
قُلْ مَن رَّبُّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ قُلِ اللَّهُ قُلْ أَفَاتَّخَذْتُم مِّن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاءَ لَا يَمْلِكُونَ لِأَنفُسِهِمْ نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ أَمْ هَلْ تَسْتَوِي الظُّلُمَاتُ وَالنُّورُ أَمْ جَعَلُوا لِلَّهِ شُرَكَاءَ خَلَقُوا كَخَلْقِهِ فَتَشَابَهَ الْخَلْقُ عَلَيْهِمْ قُلِ اللَّهُ خَالِقُ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُوَ الْوَاحِدُ الْقَهَّارُ
Transliteration
ir
Qul man rabbu alssamawati waal-ardi quli Allahu qul afaittakhathtum min doonihi awliyaa layamlikoona li-anfusihim nafAAan wala darran qul hal yastawee al-aAAma waalbaseeru am hal tastawee alththulumatu waalnnooru am jaAAaloo lillahi shurakaa khalaqoo kakhalqihi fatashabaha alkhalqu AAalayhim quli Allahu khaliqu kulli shay-in wahuwa alwahidu alqahharu
Sher Ali
ir
Say, `Who is the Lord of the heavens and the earth?' Say, `ALLAH.' Say, `Have you then taken instead of HIM helpers who have no power for good or harm even for themselves?' Say, `Can the blind and the seeing be equal? Or can darkness be equal to light? Or, do they assign to ALLAH partners who have created the like of HIS creation so that the two creations appear similar to them?' Say, `ALLAH alone is the Creator of all things, and HE is the One, the Most supreme.'
ar-Ra`d 13:16
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
blü 2 said:
In order to create 'something', God would have to be 'something', no?

In order to create 'nothing', God would have to relate 'something' to the 'nothing' condition, which, if it's an authentic nothing, is not found anywhere in time or space, hence has no volume or duration or content of any kind and no qualities other than non-existence.
Click to expand...
I don't agree with one.
G-d is only attributive, everything physical/material and the spirits are His creation.

Regards
 
Etritonakin

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
"Something" and "Nothing" are both created by G-d. Right, please?

Regards
Click to expand...
There could never have been truly nothing. It can only exist as a concept.

The God of the bible says he is that is -and always was -and always will be. God being eternal also negates the possibility of nothing.
 
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