sooda
Veteran Member
Have you been to Crete or Palestine?
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Three scriptural reasons Barack Obama is the Beast
- Thread starter xic
- Start date
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Not everyone comes of old money. Not everyone who believes and follows Jesus has done so all their lives. Not everyone who has been to Crete or Palestine steps aside from the tour guide.
Is seeing, believing, in your eyes? Some say that they went to Palestine and were shown where Jesus did this and that... and were amazed by the Grecian collumns there, &c. Having read those things, as well as many books on the archaeology related to Palestine... having done the math on 64 miles as the crow flies divided by 14 hours of daylight... I remain skeptical.
Manmade dogma doesn't get a hearing from me. Because, apart from evidentiary support, Jerusalem may as well be placed in Ebla, Hattusa, or Troy. Years ago, a french man wrote a book called Judea in Europe. Frankly, that makes as much sense as a barmaid finding a piece of the cross.
sooda
Veteran Member
What does "old money" have to do with it? I have been to the Holy Lands three times on cheap Sunday school sponsored trips... and I have been to Crete for a couple of weeks. Maybe you should start with a map.
Greeks had a presence in Palestine for at least 300 years.. so did the Romans so there are all sorts of old villas and mosaics all over the country.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I have never read them.
I believe you are confused . Jesus said that in Mat 24 not in Revelation. So the tribulation of that day was over but that is not what people talk about when they talk about the Great Tribulation.
sooda
Veteran Member
There was only the one tribulation.
What Bible do you use? Scofield's heresy has become mainstream. He founded the Dallas Theological Seminary which has turned out thousands of preachers who teach futurism and the rapture.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe the evidence is sound that the New Jerusalem is a physical edifice.
I believe then you must think that Jesus has returned and believers gathered. If not then the context does not support a contemporary to Titus time frame.
II Thes. 2:1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him
sooda
Veteran Member
The Doctrine of Dispensations and Covenants
The Scofield Bible teaches that there are seven dispensations, as follows:
The Seven Dispensations
(1)The Dispensation of Innocency, in the Gar- den of Eden, before the Fall.
(2) The Dispensation of Conscience: before the Flood.
(3) The Dispensation of Human Government: from the flood to various points of time, viz., for the human race as a unit, until the confusion of tongues, which destroyed the racial unity: for the Jews, the captivities: for the Gentile nations, the Second Coming of Christ and the judgment of Matthew 25.
(4)The Dispensation of Promise: from the calling of Abraham until Mt. Sinai.
(5)The Dispensation of the Law: from Mt. Sinai to the cross of Christ.
(6) The Dispensation of Grace: from the cross of Christ to the Second Advent.
(7) The Dispensation of the Kingdom: the millennial era.
His definition is as follows:
"A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God."
truesonsofabraham.com
The Scofield Bible teaches that there are seven dispensations, as follows:
The Seven Dispensations
(1)The Dispensation of Innocency, in the Gar- den of Eden, before the Fall.
(2) The Dispensation of Conscience: before the Flood.
(3) The Dispensation of Human Government: from the flood to various points of time, viz., for the human race as a unit, until the confusion of tongues, which destroyed the racial unity: for the Jews, the captivities: for the Gentile nations, the Second Coming of Christ and the judgment of Matthew 25.
(4)The Dispensation of Promise: from the calling of Abraham until Mt. Sinai.
(5)The Dispensation of the Law: from Mt. Sinai to the cross of Christ.
(6) The Dispensation of Grace: from the cross of Christ to the Second Advent.
(7) The Dispensation of the Kingdom: the millennial era.
His definition is as follows:
"A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God."
truesonsofabraham.com
Muffled
Jesus in me
Ryrie Study Bible and he is from the Dallas Theological Seminary but I believe I do not pay much attention to the commentaries.
I have read some things from there and disagree with their dispensation theory because I don't think they understand it well enough. I do believe that each time has its dispensation but the 10 commandments hold up over time IMO.
I disagree greatly with the DTS view of the rapture but the rapture is Biblical and a person who doesn't believe in it doesn't know how to interpret the Bible.
sooda
Veteran Member
Also the Moody Bible Institute.
If you believe Barak Obama is the Beast, you're Scofield.
Modern day Dispensationalists have become very popular in the American eye, starting with author Hal Lindsey (The Late Great Planet Earth) and continuing on with Tim LaHaye, the author of the vastly popular Left Behind series. Dispensationalists are positively obsessed with End Times topics in general, and with the Rapture theory in particular.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Again I believe the context is the return of Jesus and that has not happened yet.
sooda
Veteran Member
“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” (Matthew 24:34). The preterist takes this to mean that everything Jesus speaks of in Matthew 24 had to have occurred within one generation of His speaking—the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 was therefore “Judgment Day.”
The return of Jesus was spiritual.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Or there could have been an error made by someone.
sooda
Veteran Member
As prophesies go, its pretty accurate. Within a generation (40 years) of the crucifixion the Temple was destroyed along with Temple Judaism.
The futurists just want something more spectacular..
Look at the details. It was destroyed in August (during the grape harvest) after 42 months of conflict. Titus was also commanding Arab, Syrian and Egyptian troops in addition to the Roman garrison.
Jesus said when the Abomination of Desolation showed up his followers should flee to Pella to avoid the tribulation... and they did.
The futurists claim a 2nd tribulation .. and expect it to be world wide instead of local.
sooda
Veteran Member
The new Jerusalem is a spiritual kingdom. Perhaps Jesus has already returned at least in spirit..
It was never about the end of the world.. It was always about the end of an age and a new beginning.
Temple Judaism with its animal sacrifice was antiquated and fading fast.
Look at the conflict among the various factions of the Jews and what happened in the previous 200 years before the destruction of the Temple.
Any keen observer could have seen where this was headed by 165 BC. This prophesy wasn't magical future-telling.
sooda
Veteran Member
When was 2 Thessalonians written?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
It appears that Matthew was more likely written after said events: Most scholars believe it was composed between AD 80 and 90, with a range of possibility between AD 70 to 110 (a pre-70 date remains a minority view)... -- Gospel of Matthew - Wikipedia
I put out the idea of error only as a possibility, plus even if there was an error we don't know who made it or when. Hypothetically, was it Jesus' error? the author's? scribe(s)?
It appears it's just another example of something that cannot be determined with any certainty of being correct.
sooda
Veteran Member
Thank you..
Why do you think there's an error?
Read Josephus account of the tribulation in 70 AD. Josephus was about 33 years old at the time. Its not enough to satisfy the Hal Lindsey futurists, but it was horrific.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I put it out as a possibility-- that's all. I have no clue whether it is or isn't an error, nor do I lose any sleep over not knowing. However, I do have to admit that I'm generally suspicious of what are commonly called "miracles", but not to the point of claiming that they cannot happen.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I thought the number was 42...
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe that view does not fit the context. The context is that there were three questions asked and therefore three questions answered. It is also apparent that they were answered in order.