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But don't call them concentration camps

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
But we can’t fall into the thinking that anything less than a holocaust is not so bad. We should aspire to more than just not being Hitler.
Agreed. Nor should we elevate the death of 24 human beings to the level of 11 million dead in Nazi concentration camps.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
This number wouldn't have anything to do with the unprecedented increase in unaccompanied minors attempting to cross the border does it? It's at an all time high apparently, far more people=far more deaths but overall is it really an unprecedented increase in deaths or just about on par with the numbers in previous years?
We are talking about people that very well are suffering from dehydration, after effects of heat related injuries, malnourishment etc. from their journey or already sick to begin with. Just because they happen to die on our side of the fence does not automatically mean we were responsible for their deaths, there are a lot of factors in this.
If they died in the Mexican desert,that's on them. If they die in US custody, it's on us.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If they died in the Mexican desert,that's on them. If they die in US custody, it's on us.
That's awfully simplistic, don't you think? Effects have more than a single, direct cause. There are causes of causes.
What if we caused them to be in the Mexican desert?
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
That's awfully simplistic, don't you think? Effects have more than a single, direct cause. There are causes of causes.
What if we caused them to be in the Mexican desert?
It's black letter law. If a street punk dies on the street from a gunshot by another gang-banger, it's on him. If he's wounded and dies in custody, there will, and should, be an investigation.

How did the US cause people to be in the Mexican desert?
Please spell it out. I'll wait.
Eating Popcorn-sani.gif
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Kids Held by Border Patrol Describe Disturbing Conditions

Lawmakers on Friday were calling for swift change after reports this week of more than 250 infants, children and teens being held inside a windowless Border Patrol station, struggling to care for each other with inadequate food, water and sanitation.

It's a scene that is being repeated at other immigration facilities overwhelmed with too many migrant children and nowhere to put them.



"This facility wasn't even on our radar before we came down here," said law professor Warren Binford, a member of the team that interviewed dozens of children this week detained in Clint, about a half-hour drive from El Paso. Fifteen children had the flu, another 10 were quarantined.

At another Border Patrol station in McAllen, Texas, attorney Toby Gialluca said all the children she talked to last week were very sick with high fevers, coughing and wearing soiled clothes crusted with mucus and dirt after their long trip north.

"Everyone is sick. Everyone. They're using their clothes to wipe mucus off the children, wipe vomit off the children. Most of the little children are not fully clothed," she said.

Gialluca said migrant teens in McAllen told her they were offered frozen ham sandwiches and rotten food.

At both detention facilities, the children told attorneys that guards instructed girls as young as 8 to care for the babies and toddlers.

State and federal elected officials Friday demanded change about conditions at Clint, McAllen and other Border Patrol stations. There was plenty of angry fingerpointing as well.

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott slammed Congress as "a group of reprobates" for failing to provide adequate border security funding.

"Every child who is not being taken care of adequately at the border, Congress is an accomplice to any harm they suffer," he said.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It's black letter law. If a street punk dies on the street from a gunshot by another gang-banger, it's on him. If he's wounded and dies in custody, there will, and should, be an investigation.

How did the US cause people to be in the Mexican desert?
Please spell it out. I'll wait.
View attachment 30197
Too much history for a short format like RF. You can Google for information on US involvement in Central America and LA gang deportations.

Banana Republic is more than just a clothing chain.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
It's black letter law. If a street punk dies on the street from a gunshot by another gang-banger, it's on him. If he's wounded and dies in custody, there will, and should, be an investigation.

How did the US cause people to be in the Mexican desert?
Please spell it out. I'll wait.
View attachment 30197
An argument can be made that much of what is going on in South America is the result of U.S. foreign policy. But frankly I am too tired to make that argument right now. And I would not equate that with people suffering and dying in U,S custody in any event.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Checking dictionary definitions, we could indeed call them "concentration camps".
But then, our prisons also fit the definitions. So it seems that even Trump's most
fervent opponents among liberals also favor the existence & use of concentration
camps. Every country, even the most liberal Scandinavian countries do.
What else can be done with people whose movement must be restricted?
That doesn't deminish what they are, or change the fact that in general people who are in jail/prison broke the law. And I would argue Trumps attitude does make them lolitical prisoners, and previous administratikns have not pursued such means and ends. And, lets be honest, even inmates have access to very basic hygiene supplies, and these kids aremt even getting soap. And, also, Scandinavian prisons/jails arent severely overcrowded like they are in America, and it would likely be considered a crisis and inpediment to their goal of rehabilitation if they were.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That doesn't deminish what they are, or change the fact that in general people who are in jail/prison broke the law. And I would argue Trumps attitude does make them lolitical prisoners, and previous administratikns have not pursued such means and ends. And, lets be honest, even inmates have access to very basic hygiene supplies, and these kids aremt even getting soap. And, also, Scandinavian prisons/jails arent severely overcrowded like they are in America, and it would likely be considered a crisis and inpediment to their goal of rehabilitation if they were.
Scandinavian prisons are just nicer concentration camps.
Everyone agrees we need concentration camps.
The only questions are who should be in them & under what conditions.

Illegals aren't political prisoners.
Here's the problem.....
Dems & Pubs aren't cooperating to deal with illegal immigrants.
Trump isn't the only one responsible for this debacle.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
If they died in the Mexican desert,that's on them. If they die in US custody, it's on us.

No, in most if not all cases I would imagine that those involved would do what could be reasonably expected from anyone in the position of being a caretaker within the limits of their resources, supplies, staffing, and medical condition of those arriving. likening processing stations to concentration camps is pure political theatrics.
 
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Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
An argument can be made that much of what is going on in South America is the result of U.S. foreign policy. But frankly I am too tired to make that argument right now. And I would not equate that with people suffering and dying in U,S custody in any event.
Of course. I never denied it. I’m just saying it’s not only the US that is the problem. Central and South American problems date by to the Spanish Conquest, the French involvement and, more recently, the Soviet Union. Those blaming the US and only the US for the problems in the ME and/or South and Central America are biased and blind to the past.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Scandinavian prisons are just nicer concentration camps.
Everyone agrees we need concentration camps.
Jails and prisons, by definition, are not concentration camps. It's an extreme stretch, because they aren't political prisoners, they arent forced in having broken no crime, most nations have banned forced labor, they aren't overcrowded unless improperly managed, and no one is waiting for mass execution. That is a concentration camp.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Well, that statement is a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? I mean, if I throw a gum-wrapper out my car window and get pulled over, the only "freedom" I lose is the freedom to spend the money I now owe the state. But throwing that gum-wrapper out the window is still a "crime."

The nature of the crime is why they lost freedom.

Point being... we decide what constitutes a crime, don't we?


And we also decide how much freedom is restricted, don't we?

We? Nope. Those in Congress and other government systems like states do. According to the law they can be imprisoned or fined. More so they become ineligible for immigration for a few years.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
8 U.S. Code § 1326 - Reentry of removed aliens
 

Shad

Veteran Member
No, it's not a question of rights, it's a question of safety. They dare not attract attention to themselves, they dare not report crimes or seek medical help, lest they end up in a detention camp or back in the intolerable situation they fled.
They're hunted fugitives.

They do not want to face the consequences of their previous actions. Nothing more
 

Shad

Veteran Member
What does this mean? Clarify, please.

Many US laws have no criteria regarding citizenship for the law to be applicable to the individual. Ergo tourists can report a crime against themselves like assault or theft. Illegals avoid law enforcement as it would put them under a microscope they have been avoiding due to their status. This is the same reason other criminals avoid the law as their previous actions can be discovered.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
"The Trump administration went to court this week to argue that migrant children detained at the United States-Mexico border do not require basic hygiene products like soap and toothbrushes in order to be in held in "safe and sanitary" conditions.

Wonder if Jewish groups are getting tired of the ongoing narrative that the current political situation is similar to Nazi Germany, it isn't regardless of how badly some want and need it to be.

You mean like how in Nazi concentration camps, Jews weren't worried about getting soap, but being made into it?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The nature of the crime is why they lost freedom.
But again, the fact remains that the current punishment is what is assigned those crimes. The punishment needn't be what it currently is. That is fact.

We? Nope. Those in Congress and other government systems like states do. According to the law they can be imprisoned or fined. More so they become ineligible for immigration for a few years.

8 U.S. Code § 1325 - Improper entry by alien
8 U.S. Code § 1326 - Reentry of removed aliens
And those institutions (supposedly) are to be representative of "we."
 
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