But don't call them concentration camps

Stanyon said:

Their parent(s) brought them here, no one is taking anything, away they created a situation themselves and this is the result.

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And it is a sad state of affairs that human beings aren't trustworthy, or trusting enough to simply allow people to walk around on the Earth as they would. I'm not saying we shouldn't protect what we feel/believe is ours (like the land - which is truthfully not owned or ownable by anyone - it is only ever a "might makes right" situation with land ownership). I'm just asking if protecting our own necessarily means we have to actively take away from others when they simply show up - not even necessarily with malicious intent.

Stanyon said:

I have an idea- according to what supplies and acceptable housing we do have only accommodate that many and send the rest back over the border. Funny thing is that Mexican authorities can't support all of them either and locals are angry.

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What do you do the day America is the one who need help and you must find a New country to live in?

Valjean said:

These overcrowded concentration camps certainly don't seem to reflect either American or Christian values.

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For a great many Americans and Christians, apparently they do.

A Vestigial Mote said:

And it is a sad state of affairs that human beings aren't trustworthy, or trusting enough to simply allow people to walk around on the Earth as they would. I'm not saying we shouldn't protect what we feel/believe is ours (like the land - which is truthfully not owned or ownable by anyone - it is only ever a "might makes right" situation with land ownership). I'm just asking if protecting our own necessarily means we have to actively take away from others when they simply show up - not even necessarily with malicious intent.

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That's human nature, you lock the doors to your house don't you? We aren't taking anything away from anyone, they came here, they weren't kidnapped, if anything they are taking away from us.

Amanaki said:

What do you do the day America is the one who need help and you must find a New country to live in?

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Lol, when will that ever happen? America will be in the ascendant forever! When have chickens ever come home to roost?

Kangaroo Feathers said:

Why make that argument unless you're not wanting to provide them? The judges certainly don't seem to think it was a strawman.

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Not wanting to provide bedding you mean?

As stated previously, these people's freedom to find their own place to lie down to sleep has been taken from them. Having the freedom to decide what they lie down on in the conditions they, or their parents, put themselves/them in (i.e. far from home, without bedding, etc.) would be leagues better than what they have now. They are being forced to lay on the concrete. And again - I didn't do this to them, and I wouldn't take such freedoms away from them. There are people who did - and complaints are being lodged. I could provide beds all day long and people would still be taking this freedom away from more people tomorrow. Point being there is a SOURCE for this problem - putting bandaids on a growing wound is insanity.

Kangaroo Feathers said:

Lol, when will that ever happen? America will be in the ascendant forever! When have chickens ever come home to roost?

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Not so sure of that if Mr Trump Attack Iran

Stanyon said:

That's human nature, you lock the doors to your house don't you? We aren't taking anything away from anyone, they came here, they weren't kidnapped, if anything they are taking away from us.

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But what is it they took, or are taking? Were they going to waltz in and steal YOUR job? That's all you can really point to is jobs, isn't it? And the jobs they can get, nobody wants, honestly. Housing? Maybe - if they can even afford anything any other American who's nearly as bad off as these detainees can afford. Food? I don't seriously think that is a concern in this country.

Are we seeing a huge rash of thefts from our stores where the suspects are Hispanic/Mexican? Do we have statistics that back up? Everything unbiased that I can find point to their rates of crime as a percentage of population being below those of natural-born Americans. And I can understand if they don't provide a positive increase to GDP, but provide about the same (if slightly less) increase in percentage of incarcerated individuals and crime per capita. That makes sense.

In the end, however, I feel we are taking their freedoms. They were walking around on the great big ball that is the Earth, and because they crossed some imaginary line, we jailed them. We took that step. Otherwise they wouldn't be detained. At least be honest with yourself about that. I agree that, left to roam, they would have met the fates (by percentages) of all the other illegal immigrants that already exist in the country - of which there are A LOT. So at some point there is a "break" in support systems, and I am not saying we don't turn people away as often as we catch them trying to get in. I'm simply not for detaining them against their will for what amounts, literally, to taking a walk in a particular direction.

A Vestigial Mote said:

This is a distraction from the real problem - someone is taking their liberties away. Their liberty to go and find their own place to sleep, for example. That person isn't me. I am not responsible for these people's suffering. I wouldn't be found to be responsible. I don't work that way. The people who do take actions like these are responsible, and they are the ones who need to rectify the situation. They are the ones who took liberty and freedom away from children.

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Sooo...you think we should let these children roam freely on the streets?

Kangaroo Feathers said:

Why make that argument unless you're not wanting to provide them? The judges certainly don't seem to think it was a strawman.

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Who says the administration doesn’t want to provide them? The judge in the case acknowledged the administration was trying to provide them but there were sometimes temporary overcrowding conditions happening.

So if things are so terrible, how come illegal aliens are literally climbing walls to get into the detention centers? And how come they don’t ask voluntarily to immediately leave to go home, as they are free to do so? Because this is a ginned up fake controversy, that’s why.

Kangaroo Feathers said:

"The Trump administration went to court this week to argue that migrant children detained at the United States-Mexico border do not require basic hygiene products like soap and toothbrushes in order to be in held in "safe and sanitary" conditions. Trump's team also argued that requiring minors to sleep on cold concrete floors in crowded cells with low temperatures similarly fulfilled that requirement." Trump administration argues in court that detained migrant children don't need toothbrushes or soap and they can sleep on concrete floors

I keenly await the arrival of the resident Trumpettes and Usual Suspects to explain how questioning unnecessary, blatant cruelty to children means you support "open borders" or "hate America".

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I don't see why they can't supply them with toothbrushes, soap, and some sort of cot to sleep on. I recall some groups around here were trying to find temporary emergency shelter for the refugees. There have been plenty of people in the border areas who are stepping up to help out.

Former Tucson monastery begins taking in asylum seekers sooner than planned

There's no reason to keep these people in these detention centers, or whatever one wants to call them. There are other options available, and there's plenty of volunteers to help out.

BSM1 said:

Sooo...you think we should let these children roam freely on the streets?

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I agree we need controls in place to try and turn these people away. I just don't think detaining them, and leaving them without a choice but to sleep on concrete flooring, is a good "answer" to this.

A Vestigial Mote said:

Not wanting to provide bedding you mean?

As stated previously, these people's freedom to find their own place to lie down to sleep has been taken from them. Having the freedom to decide what they lie down on in the conditions they, or their parents, put themselves/them in (i.e. far from home, without bedding, etc.) would be leagues better than what they have now. They are being forced to lay on the concrete. And again - I didn't do this to them, and I wouldn't take such freedoms away from them. There are people who did - and complaints are being lodged. I could provide beds all day long and people would still be taking this freedom away from more people tomorrow. Point being there is a SOURCE for this problem - putting bandaids on a growing wound is insanity.

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No it hasn’t. 1) They chose to make their way here often sleeping in far worse conditions. 2) There are provided beds, and basic necessities, although rare temporary shortages occur. 3) They are free to leave the detention facilities at any time, by simply agreeing to voluntary extradition back home.

So, if they are free to go at any time, and they choose to stay, how bad can it truly be?

Shaul said:

No it hasn’t. 1) They chose to make their way here often sleeping in far worse conditions. 2) There are provided beds, and basic necessities, although rare temporary shortages occur. 3) They are free to leave the detention facilities at any time, by simply agreeing to voluntary extradition back home.

So, if they are free to go at any time, and they choose to stay, how bad can it truly be?

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These facts in the picture, I mostly agree - if agreeing to voluntary extradition is on the table at all times, then these people are somewhat being obstinate - and apparently at the expense of their children. They knew they weren't gong to be allowed to cross (if caught), due to the laws of the country they headed for. And if the case is truly that the facilities just sometimes run out of beds, then making sure they have more bedding available is actually a worthwhile cause. I am, in fact, going to go have a look to see if there is a way to donate funds for such directly, right now. My main beef is about the kids not having bedding, and sleeping on concrete floors. If that is happening due to continued inaction by their parents, then obviously someone else needs to help.

Stanyon said:

It's like the sanctuary cities

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Do you understand the reason behind sanctuary cities? It is simply to give to the undocumented the right to seek help from police and other 1st responders, to doctors, hospital emergency rooms, without the fear of being reported and without which they can be freely preyed upon.

Stanyon said:

Wonder if Jewish groups are getting tired of the ongoing narrative that the current political situation is similar to Nazi Germany, it isn't regardless of how badly some want and need it to be.

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Why? Because the accurate phrase "concentration camp" is used for Trump's concentration camp? Go argue with the dictionary and American history if that's the reason.

Stanyon said:

It's like the sanctuary cities when they were going to release them there, they all of a sudden didn't want them and considered it a punishment. Basically "we want the illegal immigrants....as long as they live somewhere else - there goes the neighbourhood!"

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The Socialist Democrats complain about 'concentration' camps when the vast majority of the blame falls squarely on them.

There wouldn't be none of these so-called 'concentration' camps if they wern't so busy promoting and encouraging the illegal activity in the first place.

Stanyon said:

Wonder if Jewish groups are getting tired of the ongoing narrative that the current political situation is similar to Nazi Germany, it isn't regardless of how badly some want and need it to be.

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Agreed. Calling Americans Nazis waters down the horrors of Nazi Germany. Same for slinging around the worlds "fascist", "socialist" and "racist" for everything in which they disagree. Overusing such terms and imagery waters down the actual wrongs committed by those who actually were fascists, socialists and racists.

Example: Claiming the US has concentration camps on the border which many see as detention centers for illegal aliens caught within out borders may cause those same people to think that real concentrations camps like we did with the Japanese AKA American citizens, weren't so bad. If so, then they might think that the Nazi concentration camps for Gypsies, Soviets, homosexuals, mentally retarded and, yes, Jews, weren't so bad either. It's a dangerous path but one often used by political zealots, anti-Americans and other extremists.

A Vestigial Mote said:

I agree we need controls in place to try and turn these people away. I just don't think detaining them, and leaving them without a choice but to sleep on concrete flooring, is a good "answer" to this.

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So what is your answer? It's illegal for us to incarcerate them with their law breaking parents.

BSM1 said:

So what is your answer? It's illegal for us to incarcerate them with their law breaking parents.

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Make the floors out of Styrofoam-rubber.