Rational Agnostic
Well-Known Member
Could this explain it?
Theists believe God came from nothing. So........
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Why do atheist believe something can come from nothing?
- Thread starter Nimos
- Start date
Theists believe God came from nothing. So........
leov
Well-Known Member
text
For example, you open Hebrew written Genesis, pick every 49 th letter. Every Hebrew latter can be represented by shadow of human hands with light behind. Then you 'tai chi' that pattern of every 49 letter, that type of meditation, it sends a person and a deep repeatable trance. Then, numerology, there I'm another level(s)of understanding based on numerology, literal text composed to satisfy numerology first, and so on...
How do you know? They have the word EVIL stamped across their forehead?
Scott C.
Just one guy
Does anyone besides me, be you atheist, or of any religious persuasion, find it amazing that we exist? I mean, isn't it? Think about it. You are a conscious sentient being, aware of your existence. Mind blown. Can we all share in this astonishing realization regardless of how certain you are that I am wrong and you are right as to the source and reasons for our existence? Seriously, this is quite a trip we find ourselves on. Do you agree?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
By this "logic" (note the air quotes), being President of the United States is even more abnormal. Writing a song that reaches the top of the charts is also pretty abnormal. Being a billionaire is also pretty darn abnormal. Literally being Elvis Presley is apparently astronomically abnormal. All those things must be as bad or worse than atheism then, right?
Nimos
Well-Known Member
Well most believe he were always there, which I think is fair enough. It doesn't bring us closer to whether he does in fact exists or not. So its a theory, which I personally have no issues with as I have none with the multiverse or simulation theory either (except that I don't believe the last one at all). Unfortunately none of them explain anything really as its basically just science of the gap
Even if the multiverse is correct, it doesn't explain how or what is making it possible to create all these universes. So to me the explanation is just as poor as God is.To me, which is my own theory and seems most plausible to me, even though I can't proof it, obviously.
Is that our Universe exist and were created by what I would call "Existence" it self, Which to me seems most likely to be some sort of energy and force combined into a single binary condition. Which is either Existence is or it is not.Which also explain why we ain't able to measure Existence directly as our Universe is created within it and therefore everything we measure, is basically just the effect of existence or what it is capable of. It also explain why time was created as its part of our Universe, but existence it self is timeless as its a condition.
So I personally agree with the argument religious people make and even some atheist scientist as well, that something is not created from nothing. And as others have also pointed out, is that Lawrence Krauss theory about something from nothing, does actually have some energy. (As far as I remember) So where this comes from, is also from the Existence, so have no issue with his idea, multiverse theory would also be possible. Big bang theory as well. Simulation theory obviously not, but I don't personally buy that one and still it doesn't explain who made the simulation. Last I do not buy the idea of a God and especially not one that cares.
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Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Bible verses won't convince anyone. They do provide cover for people who want to believe them.
leov
Well-Known Member
Years ago I listened to a few lectures on demonology, basically you don't show interest they don't show interest. You take entheogens - all bets off , unless you are trained.
leov
Well-Known Member
Agree, unless you are a thinking Gnostic.
Road Warrior
Seeking the middle path..
They also spend more time crapping on believers, at least the ones on this forum, than in discussing how the Universe came to be or what will happen to it.
leov
Well-Known Member
POTUS is a head psychopath, Imo.
Scientists do not believe something can come from nothing.
At the end of the day, you're left with this: from our point of view, something exists. It does no good at all to say, "for something to exist, there must be a cause," because -- get ready for it, because this should be blindingly obvious -- in order to "be a cause," that cause must exist. As such, it falls prey to rule 1, and is perfectly circular.
Your only out is to suppose that, perhaps, "God" (or whatever the cause is) is not "something" but "something else," but that's simply a duck to the left, and answers quite literally nothing.
In the end, my favourite position on this is simply to assert (as so many do, with a completely different meaning in mind) that "nothing is impossible." My meaning, of course, is that somehow it is impossible for nothing to exist, perhaps, as Kraus suggests, because it is somehow unstable and "falls apart." And when nothing falls apart, what you wind up with is a plus something and a minus something (just like 1 plus -1 equals 0). And from there, using only the rules we now know something about, it seems that everything else can follow quite naturally.
Still, for those who wish to claim "god did it," I only have the one question: how is it possible a god, with a will, with a creative urge and potential, can exist? (And yes, I know the theist answer to this, that "it exists necessarily," but that's nothing more than an arbitrary and totally unverifiable -- and entirely gratuitous -- claim. And it means, quite literally, nothing.
Your only out is to suppose that, perhaps, "God" (or whatever the cause is) is not "something" but "something else," but that's simply a duck to the left, and answers quite literally nothing.
In the end, my favourite position on this is simply to assert (as so many do, with a completely different meaning in mind) that "nothing is impossible." My meaning, of course, is that somehow it is impossible for nothing to exist, perhaps, as Kraus suggests, because it is somehow unstable and "falls apart." And when nothing falls apart, what you wind up with is a plus something and a minus something (just like 1 plus -1 equals 0). And from there, using only the rules we now know something about, it seems that everything else can follow quite naturally.
Still, for those who wish to claim "god did it," I only have the one question: how is it possible a god, with a will, with a creative urge and potential, can exist? (And yes, I know the theist answer to this, that "it exists necessarily," but that's nothing more than an arbitrary and totally unverifiable -- and entirely gratuitous -- claim. And it means, quite literally, nothing.
I am not an atheist, but there is nothing abnormal about atheism, though I consider some forms of theism as unnatural because they reject the natural nature of our physical existence for an interpretation of ancient mythology.
Unguru
I am a Sikh nice to meet you
How can that be possible? that's even more absurd then half of your false caricatures of theism.
Unguru
I am a Sikh nice to meet you
Alright high-and-mighty, give us dumb people one single shred of evidence for your 'no god' theory. Aside from a hypothesis that you like, what is your evidence?
Unguru
I am a Sikh nice to meet you
Major Strawman. Theists do not believe God is an object, unlike the Universe which is a object.
Unguru
I am a Sikh nice to meet you
How is wiggling your hip and singing about girl's panties abnormal? particularly by hip hop standards.
Unguru
I am a Sikh nice to meet you
This is a strawman. It only applies to the subject+object dichotomy. God is neither subject or object, it is the source behind the existence of those quantities. When there is no subject or object, then there is only God.
No, your strawman reveals that you have put very little thought into the concept of God.
Well we still have atheists in spite of Science, which goes to show that sometimes impossible things happen (like atheists still being around despite what Science has shown about the universe and nature).
Samantha Rinne
Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
But that's essentially what hawking and mlodinov assert. That somehow a universe can be built without any parts. When you start talking about this stuff, you move from legitimate science into patent nonsense.
Here's the truth. I watched a cloud seeding today. If you're wondering what this is, for about the last 10 or so years, science has had the technology to spew large amounts of smoke into the air to create or stop storms. You can wiki it, there is such tech.
Cloud seeding - Wikipedia
This is mankind trying to supplant the natural weather, and it looks sooooo fake. I looked at the sky, the blue, and the white clouds weren't moving. At all. These dark clouds, moved in, out of sync with the sky around them.
Everyone was like "ohhh it's gonna storm" and I'm like "sooooo fake" while everyone around me is looking at me funny. 45 minutes later, clouds mostly broke up.
Genesis I think it's 3 talks about Knowledge of Good and Evil. What they mean is humans live in a world that is false, a world created by their distorted perceptions. It's east to see a hopeless world where nothing cares about us, and somehow randomly things came about. But this is smoke and mirrors. The sky behind all this darkness is actually pleasant.