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Children should make up their own minds about religion

David J

David J

Member
JJ50 said:
Having had the, 'you must be saved, or burn in hell', garbage forced on us by our parents as children, my husband and I allowed our children to make up their minds about the topic. We didn't force our lack of faith on them, although we did suggest they never accepted any faith or philosophy without asking relevant questions first. Our three girls are Christians, but very moderate in their approach to their faith, they are not Biblical literalists.

Have other posters taken this approach towards their own children?
Click to expand...

I applaud your position. Your children are fortunate.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
Spartan said:
There was no Holy Ghost rape of Mary. If you ever had the intestinal fortitude and good sense to read the scriptures you would have known that.

From Luke chapter 1: The angel went to her and said, “Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.” 29 Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30 But the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; you have found favor with God. 31 You will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to call him Jesus. 32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33 and he will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever; his kingdom will never end.”

34 “How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” 35 The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called[b] the Son of God. 36 Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be unable to conceive is in her sixth month. 37 For no word from God will ever fail.”

38 “I am the Lord’s servant,” Mary answered. “May your word to me be fulfilled.” Then the angel left her.

That was Mary's consent. Sorry you missed it.
Click to expand...

I guess you never heard of the Me Too movement. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

I guess you've never heard of statutory rape. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

I guess you've never heard of the abuse heaped on young boys and girls by the Catholic clergy. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

It's all about powerful men taking advantage of innocent youngsters. There is often "consent" because the victim is too traumatized to refuse or because the victim has been convinced that it's OK and that it's the right thing to do.

If a priest can convince a youngster that sodomy and oral sex is doing what the Lord wants, can you imagine the impact of an angel appearing and saying:
The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you ... For no word from God will ever fail.”
​
Rape is rape.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
ecco said:
You fear the whole notion of anything that counters your Fundamentalist beliefs. You know that if any of them are wrong, the entire basis for your beliefs would crumble and you would be left, emotionally, alone and naked.

You probably hate and fear John Lennon's Imagine as much as you do homosexuals. Pat's on the back? I'd gently pat you on the head and tell you it's OK to go on pretending your love for bacon is God-approved.
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Spartan said:
Go tell that horse manure to your pet carp. Maybe he'll believe you, but I doubt it.
Click to expand...

Outraged response. No denial. So noted.
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
ecco said:
I guess you never heard of the Me Too movement. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

I guess you've never heard of statutory rape. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

I guess you've never heard of the abuse heaped on young boys and girls by the Catholic clergy. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

It's all about powerful men taking advantage of innocent youngsters. There is often "consent" because the victim is too traumatized to refuse or because the victim has been convinced that it's OK and that it's the right thing to do.

If a priest can convince a youngster that sodomy and oral sex is doing what the Lord wants, can you imagine the impact of an angel appearing and saying:
The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you ... For no word from God will ever fail.”
​
Rape is rape.
Click to expand...

I agree. Some people will make excuses for all the evil things attributed to the Biblical god.
 
PoetPhilosopher

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
JJ50 said:
Having had the, 'you must be saved, or burn in hell', garbage forced on us by our parents as children, my husband and I allowed our children to make up their minds about the topic. We didn't force our lack of faith on them, although we did suggest they never accepted any faith or philosophy without asking relevant questions first. Our three girls are Christians, but very moderate in their approach to their faith, they are not Biblical literalists.

Have other posters taken this approach towards their own children?
Click to expand...

I think it's not only wise, but I also am skeptical of making things up about the Easter Bunny, Santa, etc. Even if the two subjects aren't the same in every sense.
 
Spartan

Spartan

Well-Known Member
ecco said:
I guess you never heard of the Me Too movement. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

I guess you've never heard of statutory rape. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

I guess you've never heard of the abuse heaped on young boys and girls by the Catholic clergy. Perhaps you have heard of it but don't really understand it.

It's all about powerful men taking advantage of innocent youngsters. There is often "consent" because the victim is too traumatized to refuse or because the victim has been convinced that it's OK and that it's the right thing to do.

If a priest can convince a youngster that sodomy and oral sex is doing what the Lord wants, can you imagine the impact of an angel appearing and saying:
The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you ... For no word from God will ever fail.”
​
Rape is rape.
Click to expand...

<facepalm>

Really? You're going to accuse Almighty God of rape? There's no doubt a charge like that originates from anywhere else than Satan himself.

Perhaps you forgot - the virgin birth was a fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14. And after Mary had given her consent in Luke chapter 1, she then said,

"My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord,
my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
for he has looked with favor on his lowly servant.
From this day all generations will call me blessed:
the Almighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his Name."

Hardly the words of a rape victim.

Get a new dog to trot around the arena. Yours has fleas and the mange.
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Spartan said:
You're full of folly, trying to justify abominations. You've got nothing of substance.
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Stop trolling. You have no real argument. You're just being insulting and bigoted. Maybe actually try reading your Bible and learning about your stated religion before spouting crap.
 
Spartan

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
Stop trolling. You have no real argument. You're just being insulting and bigoted. Maybe actually try reading your Bible and learning about your stated religion before spouting crap.
Click to expand...

"try reading your Bible"? I've read it numerous times. Got two degrees in Biblical Theology. You've got what - no formal theological education and a load of hot air claims. So back at you.
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Spartan said:
<facepalm>

Really? You're going to accuse Almighty God of rape? There's no doubt a charge like that originates from anywhere else than Satan himself.

Perhaps you forgot - the virgin birth was a fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14. And after Mary had given her consent in Luke chapter 1, she then said,

"My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord,
my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
for he has looked with favor on his lowly servant.
From this day all generations will call me blessed:
the Almighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his Name."

Hardly the words of a rape victim.

Get a new dog to trot around the arena. Yours has fleas and the mange.
Click to expand...

That might have been attributed to the girl Mary, but I suspect that was made up by the gospel writers.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
Spartan said:
<facepalm>

Really? You're going to accuse Almighty God of rape? There's no doubt a charge like that originates from anywhere else than Satan himself.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that someone must have made that claim before me. However, I never saw it before I posted it several years ago.

If you want to believe that that makes me Satan, well, that's just another cause for laughter.

Spartan said:
Perhaps you forgot - the virgin birth was a fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14.
Click to expand...

Am I supposed to be impressed that some non-existent person allegedly made a prediction?

Mary's "consent" and "acceptance" are entirely meaningless. You obviously didn't understand any of what I wrote. Let me rephrase, you obviously don't want to see how what I wrote applies to your Bible story.

Spartan said:
And after Mary had given her consent in Luke chapter 1, she then said,
"My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord,
my spirit rejoices in God my Savior
for he has looked with favor on his lowly servant.
From this day all generations will call me blessed:
the Almighty has done great things for me,
and holy is his Name."

Hardly the words of a rape victim.
Click to expand...

"Yes massa, this lowly servant will be glad and honored to carry your baby."

Exactly the words of many slaves.

Spartan said:
Get a new dog to trot around the arena. Yours has fleas and the mange.
Click to expand...
Your acceptance of rape and slavery is no different than the acceptance of rape and slavery by millions of men throughout history. It didn't start with your Bible but it was definitely encouraged by it.
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
Spartan said:
"try reading your Bible"? I've read it numerous times. Got two degrees in Biblical Theology. You've got what - no formal theological education and a load of hot air claims. So back at you.
Click to expand...
The following with my emphases
Biblical Theology - The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
If you want to strengthen your understanding of the relationship between the Old and the New Testament, and grow in your comprehension of the storyline of the Scriptures, or explore contemporary issues in Biblical Theology, then the Ph.D. in Biblical Theology is for you.


This degree requires two Biblical Theology seminars: 1) History of Biblical Theology; and 2) Methods in Biblical Theology. Students will then take three other seminars, choosing from New Testament seminars or Old Testament seminars to complete their major.

​
Seminars? Ph.D.? Yipee!
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
ecco said:
I'm sure that someone must have made that claim before me. However, I never saw it before I posted it several years ago.

If you want to believe that that makes me Satan, well, that's just another cause for laughter.



Am I supposed to be impressed that some non-existent person allegedly made a prediction?

Mary's "consent" and "acceptance" are entirely meaningless. You obviously didn't understand any of what I wrote. Let me rephrase, you obviously don't want to see how what I wrote applies to your Bible story.



"Yes massa, this lowly servant will be glad and honored to carry your baby."

Exactly the words of many slaves.


Your acceptance of rape and slavery is no different than the acceptance of rape and slavery by millions of men throughout history. It didn't start with your Bible but it was definitely encouraged by it.
Click to expand...

Good post.
 
BilliardsBall

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
JJ50 said:
Making your children read the not so good book is like forcing them to read other fairy tale books! Cleaning their teeth is good for their health and I insisted on that too.
Click to expand...

So you are challenging me because I obeyed my conscience? Is that appropriate?

And, since I know God personally and know God is not a fairy tale, can you provide proof of your assertion re: the Holy Bible? Or are your imaginings and experiences the only valid ones? I don't mind atheists saying, "I've never met God," but I sure as sure mind them saying, "No one else has, either, because we are omniscient and know every experience of every human in all of history."
 
BilliardsBall

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
ecco said:
No. I'm an atheist.

They were not very involved in whatever religious belifs they may have had.

I was not "raised Christian". We celebrated Christmas and Santa and Easter and the Bunny.


And that is the very form of indoctrination I have been referring to.



And as a result of all three, they became highly religious people with good teeth and clean heinies.


I have no idea of the methods you used for teeth and heinies. I do know you made them read the Bible. How you accomplished that I don't know because you haven't said.
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"Hi kids, before bed time, shall we read a book together?" I should be executed, right, or should only prenatal babies be executed?
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
BilliardsBall said:
So you are challenging me because I obeyed my conscience? Is that appropriate?

And, since I know God personally and know God is not a fairy tale, can you provide proof of your assertion re: the Holy Bible? Or are your imaginings and experiences the only valid ones? I don't mind atheists saying, "I've never met God," but I sure as sure mind them saying, "No one else has, either, because we are omniscient and know every experience of every human in all of history."
Click to expand...

You BELIEVE you 'know' god personally, you don't know it for a verifiable fact, however much you might claim you do. You have no evidence in actually exists.
 
BilliardsBall

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
JJ50 said:
You BELIEVE you 'know' god personally, you don't know it for a verifiable fact, however much you might claim you do. You have no evidence in actually exists.
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I think that would depend on how we define facts:

Ex: To the best of my ability, experience, knowledge, trust, etc. the Sun will rise tomorrow and gravity will work tomorrow (inductive/experiential)

To the best of my ability, experience, knowledge, trust, etc. God interacts with me on a more than daily basis, as people trust Jesus for salvation, I see miracles, I see facts in the Bible authenticated, I see Jesus in biology/cosmology/physics/design/teleology/order/the human heart, etc., etc. (inductive/experiential)
 
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