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Science confirms validity of intercessory prayer

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Reverend Bob said:
No dude, every Christian know what intercessory is because there is a model for it called The Lord's Prayer and it what I described as intercessory prayer fit exactly inside that model. Go look it up yourself.
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You are probably merely misinterpreting it. I am not doing your homework for you.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Reverend Bob said:
They are inconclusive. And logical conclusion is that these studies are waste.
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They arent a waste because, due to these studies, we can definitively say prayer isnt an effective means of healthcare. Properly dosed medications are. Prayers didnt reduce polio and measles. Vaccines did. Prayer has never done anything for my knees. Medications, ice, heat, and the occasional surgery does. And the studies, I am very confident a proper meta-analysis would reveal the studies show there is overall no significant statistical relation overall, all things considered. "Void the null hypothesis," as is heard a half million times in any statistics course.
 
charlie sc

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
Spartan said:
You're wrong again. I judge each study independently and look at its methodology and other criteria
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I almost never call people lairs, because lying involves knowing one is being deceptive. So, you are either lying here or confused. You didn't even know how to get one of the studies in the OP(which you made) or the name of it. Obviously, you didn't read it. I had to look for it and I did it because of my morbid interest in this thread. I'm definitely not going to read through it. You've obviously made up your mind, so what use would it be to read through some dubious study? Meh. No more homework for me.

Spartan said:
The contrary "STEP" study had a religious cult that didn't believe in intercessory prayer as it's prayer group. That group ("The Unity School of Christinity") had a Christian sounding name but it was anything but Christian.

Ron Rhodes, who has a doctorate in systematic theology and who has authored some sixty theological books, noted, "The Unity School of Christianity is definitely not Christian." Probe, a respected Christian journal, calls Unity "a classic new age cult that is not Christian in any aspect of its doctrines or teachings." Even the co-founder of the cult, Charles Fillmore, once wrote, "God never performs miracles."

So, as Dr. Brown (see the OP) noted, the studies are different because (the STEP study) "has a different inclusion” criteria. She also stated, the STEP study "is instructional on how NOT to conduct a study of Christian prayer."
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No true scotsman, huh? Basically, you're saying if it fails in finding significance then it's wrong, because they weren't true Christians. Yeh, nice, unfalsifiable.

Spartan said:
So take your blinders off, Charlie.
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If I have blinders, then you're in a mine 4km bellow the surface - without a light... Yes, I googled the deepest mine in the world
 
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The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Shadow Wolf said:
They arent a waste because, due to these studies, we can definitively say prayer isnt an effective means of healthcare. Properly dosed medications are. Prayers didnt reduce polio and measles. Vaccines did. Prayer has never done anything for my knees. Medications, ice, heat, and the occasional surgery does. And the studies, I am very confident a proper meta-analysis would reveal the studies show there is overall no significant statistical relation overall, all things considered. "Void the null hypothesis," as is heard a half million times in any statistics course.
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I don't think it helps much for tooth decay either but it does help build communal relationships and gives people hope and comfort. And that is all that is necessary.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Reverend Bob said:
They are inconclusive. And logical conclusion is that these studies are waste.
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And even if studies find nothing or are includive, ifs not at all a waste because the next researcher now knows what didnt work and where more research is needed. Science in discourse is very circular, with people taking and giving, contributing and adjusting, round and round it goes. Its not a linear process exactly, its not fast, it has no end goal in sight or planned, and it doesnt care what you think is a waste or not. All knowledge is worthy in pursuit when your quest is one that seeks knowledge.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The Reverend Bob said:
I don't think it helps much for tooth decay either but it does help build communal relationships and gives people hope and comfort. And that is all that is necessary.
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And you probably wont find more than a few who take issue with that. However, we know regardless they still need to see a dentist for their tooth decay, and much much sooner rather than later. And we also know she wants to get that tooth looked at pronto because prayer isnt going to help the pain once the nerve is exposed, and so far science and medicine cant save her from the agonizing pain either.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
charlie sc said:
Would you mind explaining how Occam's razor fits into this?
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Close groups that promote pro-social behaviors typically get members who themselves are more pro social, take better care of themselves, do better in school, less likely to use drugs, and so. Its because were social animals. Occams razor fits because we dont religiosity isnt needed to explain this - its a piece of a much larger trend. But the spot light, even in many text books, gets put very heavily on the religious part of it.
 
charlie sc

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Close groups that promote pro-social behaviors typically get members who themselves are more pro social, take better care of themselves, do better in school, less likely to use drugs, and so. Its because were social animals. Occams razor fits because we dont religiosity isnt needed to explain this - its a piece of a much larger trend. But the spot light, even in many text books, gets put very heavily on the religious part of it.
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Fair enough.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Spartan said:
It's already been linked by someone else. Get a new dog that hunts.
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Well, link it again, or tell us what post contains it. What is the problem?

At present I could equally claim that there are studies that show the tooth fairy exists, with the same evidence.

Ciao

- viole
 
exchemist

exchemist

Veteran Member
The Reverend Bob said:
And the contradictory results of the sum totals of these studies has proven that it is a waste of time. It is outside the magestria of science. There is no related field in science to study a metaphysical concept and practice such as prayer. Science is about studying the physical universe not the spiritual one.
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Magisterium.
 
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