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Infallibility

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So if you don't agree unquestioningly with the interpretations of the UHJ you are not really a Baha'i - you're "dead"...nice! Spiritual totalitarianism...as Pete Townshend might have put it "meet the new God, same as the old God" - and then we all join in the chorus "..and we get on our knees and pray, we won't get fooled again"!

It is something we as Baha'i, have all had to consider and come to terms with. Personally, I know this deep personal refelction makes me a better person.

It is always a free will choice to submit. This is why the Message of Muhammad was required between Christ and the Messiah, Muhammad taught submission to Allah and His laws. Thus the concept of submission is very strong, what is weak is our choice to do so.

I see my life has changed dramatically over the last 35 years and I would never go back. In saying that, one still makes mistakes, but after the lesson is learned, it becomes a strength that can not again be taken from you.

I now willingly bow on my knees daily, but it was many years after accepting faith before I did so willingly.

The Message of Baha'u'llah is worded strongly and I see that @Trailblazer may be on to something telling it from the hip so to speak, the Tablet of the Temple by Baha'u'llah, does not hold back about the consequence of our failure of turning to God.

".. Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might—hands who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. These hands will gird up their loins to champion the Faith of God, and will, in My name the Self-Subsistent, the Mighty, subdue the peoples and kindreds of the earth. They will enter the cities and will inspire with fear the hearts of all their inhabitants. Such are the evidences of the might of God; how fearful, how vehement is His might, and how justly doth He wield it! He, verily, ruleth and transcendeth all who are in the heavens and on the earth, and revealeth what He desireth according to a prescribed measure...."

"...O ye wise men of the City and philosophers of the world! Beware lest human learning and wisdom cause you to wax proud before God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Know ye that true wisdom is to fear God, to know Him, and to recognize His Manifestations. This wisdom, however, can be attained only by those who detach themselves from the world, and who walk in the ways of the good pleasure of their Lord....."

Of course, you are free to throw all that out the window. Personally I have chosen to change my ways.

Regards Tony
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
I think the concept of 'infallibility!', is blown up into an absurd caricature, by religious bigots trying to take cheap shots at Christianity.

:shrug:
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
"The conservative and progressive worldviews dividing our country can most readily be understood in terms of moral worldviews that are encapsulated in two very different common forms of family life: The Nurturant Parent family (progressive) and the Strict Father family (conservative).
ROFL!!

..not much groupthink loyalty going on there! Lol!

The 'enlightened, loving, caring nurturer', vs the 'violent, abusive, angry bigot!'

Wonderful imagery to castigate your ideological enemies!

/shakes head/
 

siti

Well-Known Member
I think the concept of 'infallibility!', is blown up into an absurd caricature, by religious bigots trying to take cheap shots at Christianity.
Do you? You don't think it was - and still remains - a serious theological concept for many? Do you think Christ was infallible?
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Do you? You don't think it was - and still remains - a serious theological concept for many? Do you think Christ was infallible?
1. Yes
2. I don't know anyone personally, just the fearmongering and demonizing from anti-christian bigots trying to smear all of Christianity with some outlier they found on a website. ..probably a fake, anyway. :shrug:
3. Yes, i believe Jesus was infallible.. but still human. Is that ambiguous enough? :D

Is the sunrise wrong?
Does gravity have a bad attitude?
Are human beings good or evil?

:)
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And I have chosen not to live in fear and superstition.

Amen!?

I have no fear nor superstition pertaining to this world and therin lays the secret of life.

My Love for God builds the fear that my own actions veil me from such a pure love.

I see your amen is such a veil, even when God's love still shines upon us all.

Regards Tony
 

siti

Well-Known Member
I don't know anyone personally, just the fearmongering and demonizing from anti-christian bigots trying to smear all of Christianity with some outlier they found on a website. ..probably a fake, anyway.
Well, for your info. there are literally millions - no billions - of people who sincerely believe that their particular prophet, messiah, deity...etc. is infallible - that is what we have been talking about.

Yes, i believe Jesus was infallible.. but still human. Is that ambiguous enough?
See! You also believe in infallibility - and you didn't even know it!

Is the sunrise wrong?
Of course it is - far too bloody early for one thing. If an infallible God had meant everyone to see the sun rise, he wouldn't have made it happen at such an uncivilized hour of the day. And then its too low as well - its a real bummer trying to drive towards the rising sun on the way to work - an infallible God would presumably have made it just leap straight up into the sky above and then stay there for the rest of the day so you don't have to drive with one hand shielding your eyes in the morning or waste money on polaroid sunglasses.

Does gravity have a bad attitude?
Well its always throwing things down.

Are human beings good or evil?
Of course they are.
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
...and "irrational" - why am I reminded of kettles and pots and the colour black at this point?
..nothing gets by you, does it?

;)

Ok, i expect the same righteous indignation if Christians or conservatives are demeaned with some snarky label.. deal? :D
 

siti

Well-Known Member
Ok, i expect the same righteous indignation if Christians or conservatives are demeaned with some snarky label.. deal?
OK - I promise I'll object if I see people applying demeaning labels to Christian indoctrinees or irrational conservatives too...oops!
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It is something we as Baha'i, have all had to consider and come to terms with. Personally, I know this deep personal refelction makes me a better person.

It is always a free will choice to submit. This is why the Message of Muhammad was required between Christ and the Messiah, Muhammad taught submission to Allah and His laws. Thus the concept of submission is very strong, what is weak is our choice to do so.

I see my life has changed dramatically over the last 35 years and I would never go back. In saying that, one still makes mistakes, but after the lesson is learned, it becomes a strength that can not again be taken from you.

I now willingly bow on my knees daily, but it was many years after accepting faith before I did so willingly.

The Message of Baha'u'llah is worded strongly and I see that @Trailblazer may be on to something telling it from the hip so to speak, the Tablet of the Temple by Baha'u'llah, does not hold back about the consequence of our failure of turning to God.

".. Erelong shall God draw forth, out of the bosom of power, the hands of ascendancy and might—hands who will arise to win victory for this Youth and who will purge mankind from the defilement of the outcast and the ungodly. These hands will gird up their loins to champion the Faith of God, and will, in My name the Self-Subsistent, the Mighty, subdue the peoples and kindreds of the earth. They will enter the cities and will inspire with fear the hearts of all their inhabitants. Such are the evidences of the might of God; how fearful, how vehement is His might, and how justly doth He wield it! He, verily, ruleth and transcendeth all who are in the heavens and on the earth, and revealeth what He desireth according to a prescribed measure...."

"...O ye wise men of the City and philosophers of the world! Beware lest human learning and wisdom cause you to wax proud before God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Know ye that true wisdom is to fear God, to know Him, and to recognize His Manifestations. This wisdom, however, can be attained only by those who detach themselves from the world, and who walk in the ways of the good pleasure of their Lord....."

Of course, you are free to throw all that out the window. Personally I have chosen to change my ways.

Regards Tony
Baha'i is the same poison in a new bottle it seems....good to know
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Baha'i is the same poison in a new bottle it seems....good to know
Just replace 'Baha'i' with 'Christian' and 'Baha'u'llah' with 'Christ' (or Muslim and Muhammad) and things get incredibly eerily similar. Same message, different names.

"And only if people could really be reflective, they'd come to believe as I believe." ... (from all these sides) Frankly, I still find it befuddling.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Baha'i is the same poison in a new bottle it seems....good to know
No, it is the same Divine Elixir that is sent in every age, in a new bottle. :)

“The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Baha'i is the same poison in a new bottle it seems....good to know

Just replace 'Baha'i' with 'Christian' and 'Baha'u'llah' with 'Christ' (or Muslim and Muhammad) and things get incredibly eerily similar. Same message, different names.

"And only if people could really be reflective, they'd come to believe as I believe." ... (from all these sides) Frankly, I still find it befuddling.

No, it is the same Divine Elixir that is sent in every age, in a new bottle. :)

“The vitality of men’s belief in God is dying out in every land; nothing short of His wholesome medicine can ever restore it. The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, O Hakím, to effect in the constituent elements of any of the minute and indivisible particles of matter so complete a transformation as to transmute it into purest gold? Perplexing and difficult as this may appear, the still greater task of converting satanic strength into heavenly power is one that We have been empowered to accomplish. The Force capable of such a transformation transcendeth the potency of the Elixir itself. The Word of God, alone, can claim the distinction of being endowed with the capacity required for so great and far-reaching a change.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 200

The Oneness of God unfolds as our heart chooses to see it. ;)

Regards Tony
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
ROFL!!

..not much groupthink loyalty going on there! Lol!

The 'enlightened, loving, caring nurturer', vs the 'violent, abusive, angry bigot!'

Wonderful imagery to castigate your ideological enemies!

/shakes head/
shakes head back. Obviously, you aren't interesting in thinking about these things. Yet, you feel a need to display this for some reason?
 
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