Who will get to heaven?

Milton Platt said:

Proof is probably the wrong word to use. evidence is what is lacking. As you have said, there is no way to establish that a heaven exists, other than old texts subject to interpretation and also containing some rather horrific morality. I do not know what sorts of evidence you feel you have, but I would think you are using fairly low standards of evidence. If that seems a bit harsh, that is not the intent. I'm trying to speak plainly and not load you up with "word salad".

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To be clear, I do not consider the Bible to be evidence of an afterlife.
I believe that the Writings of Baha'u'llah are evidence because I am a Baha'i, but I do not think they are the only evidence...

NDEs are some evidence but they are not the best evidence because those people, even if they were declared clinically dead, they were not dead long enough to know what happens in the spiritual world. They were looking beyond this life but they did not fully enter the spiritual world because if they had entered it, they could not have been resuscitated and come back to this life.

The best evidence for the afterlife are people who have had communications with spirits (souls) who have passed on. I understand how atheists feel about this evidence, but it is still the best evidence. There is no logical reason to discount these because there is no reason to think it is impossible for 'some people' to be able to communicate with those who exist in the spiritual world.

What makes these accounts of the afterlife (spiritual world) credible for me is that they all tell about the same story, in different ways, and it is no surprise to me that they align perfectly with the very little that Baha'u'llah revealed about the afterlife.

As a believer, I think it is important to know that God exists, but it might be even more important to know that there is an afterlife, and to know something about it, because the primary purpose of this earthly existence is to prepare for the afterlife.
The following three books depict the (afterlife) spiritual world.

The Afterlife Revealed
Private Dowding
Heaven and Hell

The book entitled Heaven and Hell is very sobering, but it might be the most important book anyone ever reads. I cannot say that I believe everything he wrote about actually exists in heaven or hell, but I think that the general idea of heaven and hell is accurately portrayed.

The primary point of contention I have with the author is that I do not believe that Jesus rules heaven; but the book was written in 1758, before the coming of Baha'u'llah, so it is understandable why this is what he perceived.

JJ50 said:

Only a psycho would flood a whole planet, ...........

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I wonder how you concluded the ^ above^ __________
If those violent people were also having sex with animals then there is the possibility that disease was spreading.
Revelation does Not tell us what is going to cause animal attacks but just that it will be happening - Revelation 6:8 B.
So, before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill, there is a coming ' great tribulation ' of Revelation 7:14,9 that unless there is divine involvement into mankind's affairs there is No hope.
But the Bible does give us HOPE ( Hold On Pain Ends ) - Revelation 22:2

Gerry said:

It’s not necessary for me to prove it. You will get no benefit.
Should you actually want proof, you would definitely find it, without my assistance.
But then, that is the question. Do you really want proof, or do you want to feel important and knowledgeable, while belittling other people’s comments? Yes, that is the question.
And the answer is within you.

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Dude, you are free to believe whatever you like, just don't try to shove it down my throat or the throats of other citizens.

Agreed, the answer is within you. Logic says that the world isn't 6000 years old. That it's impossible to flood the entire planet to the top of Mount Everest and that no man can survive 3 days inside the belly of a whale.

Bird123 said:

Prisons should only exist to protect people not punish them. How long have people been put in prison? If mankind would work at solving the underlying problems that cause crime, how many would be in prison today after all that time of study? The problem will never go away until it is solved. That is why the problem exists in the first place............................
Do you really want Peace?? It's so simple. Learn your lessons.

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If you ask, I think most people would say they want peace, so then it is odd that there is Not more Peace on Earth.
All mankind has to do is live by the Golden Rule and follow Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35.
If everyone on Earth lived by, applied, the Golden Rule there would be No crime No violence No war.
Mankind can't enforce the Golden Rule or Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others.
That is why God will have Jesus step in to establish international Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Man won't stop wars but Psalms 46:9 informs us who will __________

Road Warrior said:

Agreed, the answer is within you. Logic says that the world isn't 6000 years old. That it's impossible to flood the entire planet to the top of Mount Everest and that no man can survive 3 days inside the belly of a whale.

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Not only logic but Scripture does Not teach Earth is 6,000 years old.
For that matter each of the Genesis creative days is Not given a length of time.
It does Not say whether each creative day was of the same length or of differing lengths of time.
ALL of the creative days are simply summed up by the singular word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4.

Before the Flood Earth could have been flatter, meaning the flood helped create higher mountain peaks.
There is No mention of a whale, but a BIG fish, and we do Not know the details.
I remember a news clipping back in the very late 60's about a man swallowed by a fish that ejected him near a shore line.
I don't know if the man was rescued by a boat but the man was alive although ghostly pasty white but alive and walking in the picture.

Bird123 said:

Is this a excuse to Hate? Does it somehow make you feel more important or better when you condemn others?
God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. Instead of condemning your so called goat-like people perhaps there is something you can Learn from them.
Your holy book written by man reflects man very well. God is beyond Hating, Condemning, and Classing His children. God is also not afraid of Diversity. God loves it.
Perhaps, it's time for you to examine your actions and choices. Is this who you really want to be? Is this how you want others to treat you?
Make wise choices for regardless of your Beliefs, your choices will return to teach you what your choices really mean. Don't you Understand? For God, it has never ever been about Punishment. That is mankind's desire to rule, control, hate and punish.

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Oh, Good Grief, if what you say is true, then Jesus' followers would Not be knocking themselves out to do the international work of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to warn everyone about the coming ' great tribulation ' and how to survive it (Revelation 7:14,9) .

Jesus taught how to treat others at John 13:34-35
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor ' more ' than self. Where is the hatred in that _______
Jesus, as shepherd, does the separating work at the time of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 and Not any person.
Only wicked people will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

Trailblazer said:

To be clear, I do not consider the Bible to be evidence of an afterlife...................

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And I agree because I also do Not consider the Bible to be evidence of an afterlife.
This is because the word ' afterlife ' implies a person is more alive 'after' death then before death.
Afterlife is Not a biblical teaching but future Resurrection is -> Acts of the Apostles 24:15
Bible teaches the dead know nothing but sleep - Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
So, until Resurrection Day (meaning Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) the majority of mankind sleep in death until resurrected to Heaven for some ( Revelation 20:6; 2:10) and
for most people resurrected back to happy-and-healthy physical life on Earth.
So, until Christ's millennial reign over Earth, we have the Resurrection H.o.p.e. (Hold On Pain Ends)

URAVIP2ME said:

Not only logic but Scripture does Not teach Earth is 6,000 years old.
For that matter each of the Genesis creative days is Not given a length of time.
It does Not say whether each creative day was of the same length or of differing lengths of time.
ALL of the creative days are simply summed up by the singular word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4.

Before the Flood Earth could have been flatter, meaning the flood helped create higher mountain peaks.
There is No mention of a whale, but a BIG fish, and we do Not know the details.
I remember a news clipping back in the very late 60's about a man swallowed by a fish that ejected him near a shore line.
I don't know if the man was rescued by a boat but the man was alive although ghostly pasty white but alive and walking in the picture.

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Sorry, man, but words have meaning. If you want to say Genesis "days" are parable, then the whole book of Genesis is arguably parable since differentiating between what is an what is not is impossible to determine.

URAVIP2ME said:

And I agree because I also do Not consider the Bible to be evidence of an afterlife.
This is because the word ' afterlife ' implies a person is more alive 'after' death then before death.
Afterlife is Not a biblical teaching but future Resurrection is -> Acts of the Apostles 24:15
Bible teaches the dead know nothing but sleep - Psalms 6:5; 13:3; 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14.
So, until Resurrection Day (meaning Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years) the majority of mankind sleep in death until resurrected to Heaven for some ( Revelation 20:6; 2:10) and
for most people resurrected back to happy-and-healthy physical life on Earth.
So, until Christ's millennial reign over Earth, we have the Resurrection H.o.p.e. (Hold On Pain Ends)

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With all due respect to your beliefs, I do not believe that physical bodies are resurrected and live forever on Earth.
Having to live forever on Earth would be hell, not heaven, no matter how healthy someone was.

Heaven is a spiritual dimension with no physical properties, and no physical bodies, only spiritual bodies.
Heaven is greater than we can ever imagine from this earthly vantage point.

Trailblazer said:

With all due respect to your beliefs, I do not believe that physical bodies are resurrected and live forever on Earth.
Having to live forever on Earth would be hell, not heaven, no matter how healthy someone was.

Heaven is a spiritual dimension with no physical properties, and no physical bodies, only spiritual bodies.
Heaven is greater than we can ever imagine from this earthly vantage point.

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I don't know. My imaginationis pretty good. But I still do not see anything about humans ( either physical or spiritual ) living in heaven. Heaven is reserved for God and the angels.

lostwanderingsoul said:

I don't know. My imaginationis pretty good. But I still do not see anything about humans ( either physical or spiritual ) living in heaven. Heaven is reserved for God and the angels.

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You are probably right about that. Humans who die and go to heaven become angels and live where God is present, whereas the other humans who die and go to hell are not angels.

More on that later if you want to know more.

Road Warrior said:

Dude, you are free to believe whatever you like, just don't try to shove it down my throat or the throats of other citizens.

Agreed, the answer is within you. Logic says that the world isn't 6000 years old. That it's impossible to flood the entire planet to the top of Mount Everest and that no man can survive 3 days inside the belly of a whale.

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I surely do not attempt to shove any beliefs down your throat.
You never got that from me.
It is of absolutely zero concern to me what you believe.
You possibly have me confused with the many people posing as Christians.

Road Warrior said:

differentiating between what is an what is not is impossible to determine.

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so much for debate

Trailblazer said:

You are probably right about that. Humans who die and go to heaven become angels and live where God is present, whereas the other humans who die and go to hell are not angels.

More on that later if you want to know more.

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I would truly love to learn more. I thought angels were beings created by God before humans existed. If you have Bible verse that say otherwise please list them.

lostwanderingsoul said:

Oh my goodness. You can't read either. How do you know paradise is heaven. Adam and Eve were in paradise here on earth. Also Jesus was NO in heaven that same day. Several days later He told people not to touch Him because he had NOT yet ascended to the Father. So once again my question is find a verse that says "HEAVEN" and says people go there after death. No prize this time, But thanks for trying.

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Hi. Thanks for your comment. I think I’m getting some of the various persons here mixed up, but I will give you my best ideas.

1. There was no Adam or Eve in a special garden.

2. Jesus WAS in heaven on the same day.
He was even there long before that day. Consider that the Bible says that all that was created was created by Jesus. Don’t confuse time with eternity. He created the earth before he was born on earth.

3. There is no paradise on earth. Therefore the thief and Jesus would be together in the kingdom of god, immediately after death.

4. Your comment makes it sound like you think “the father” and Jesus are two separate entities. How many times did he say that they are ONE? John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Just food for thought.

URAVIP2ME said:

Not only logic but Scripture does Not teach Earth is 6,000 years old.
For that matter each of the Genesis creative days is Not given a length of time.
It does Not say whether each creative day was of the same length or of differing lengths of time.
ALL of the creative days are simply summed up by the singular word ' day ' at Genesis 2:4.

Before the Flood Earth could have been flatter, meaning the flood helped create higher mountain peaks.
There is No mention of a whale, but a BIG fish, and we do Not know the details.
I remember a news clipping back in the very late 60's about a man swallowed by a fish that ejected him near a shore line.
I don't know if the man was rescued by a boat but the man was alive although ghostly pasty white but alive and walking in the picture.

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Please try to not force reality to fit all the mythical Bible stories.
Instead look for a more beautiful meaning inside the story.

Someone once said “the person who knows everything has nothing to learn”.

I know nothing, but plan on learning for eternity.

Road Warrior said:

Love your post, but I don't see @URAVIP2ME isn't showing hate, just a point of view which you claimed with this statement: "God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have."

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You are right URAVIP2ME is expressing a different view which is perfectly OK. On the other hand, does that view lead to a Higher Level where Unconditional Love lives? I don't see how it can.

As I see it, given enough time ,lessons, and living all the sides we do not understand ,we will all discover Unconditional Love is the only answer.

Hate is not always a direct thing. One can be doing it without realizing it especially after a lifetime of being taught that it is right or it comes from God.

Glad you like my post. Thanks for your kind words.

URAVIP2ME said:

If you ask, I think most people would say they want peace, so then it is odd that there is Not more Peace on Earth.
All mankind has to do is live by the Golden Rule and follow Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35.
If everyone on Earth lived by, applied, the Golden Rule there would be No crime No violence No war.
Mankind can't enforce the Golden Rule or Jesus' New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others.
That is why God will have Jesus step in to establish international Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Man won't stop wars but Psalms 46:9 informs us who will __________

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You are right. Everyone wants Peace. Is Peace the Goal of this world???

Do you think God has a control problem? Do you think God needs to rule out of force to control the kiddies? Isn't it mankind who values control and wants God to Enforce mankind's will?

This world is a multilevel classroom. You can bet kiddies are learning. It comes to pass that more is learned through drama and adversity than at any other time. If everything would be peaceful, we would just sit back and enjoy the ride.

As students learn, they move on. Fresh students in need of learning always seem to show up. Still everything moves forward. Look how mankind has progressed over the years.

If you Teach your children until they acquire True wisdom through their free will, there will be no need for control or even laws. Clearly, God is several steps ahead.

URAVIP2ME said:

Oh, Good Grief, if what you say is true, then Jesus' followers would Not be knocking themselves out to do the international work of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 to warn everyone about the coming ' great tribulation ' and how to survive it (Revelation 7:14,9) .

Jesus taught how to treat others at John 13:34-35
We are to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, we are now to love neighbor ' more ' than self. Where is the hatred in that _______
Jesus, as shepherd, does the separating work at the time of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 and Not any person.
Only wicked people will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

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Yes, there are many sides to Discover. How can anyone argue over being selfless and helping others? On the other hand, what else is being taught? Judging, condemning, controlling, intimidation and hate.

How can you love in one breath then want to destroy people in the next? Why do you think God is not capable of fixing all His children.

For mankind, it is easier to destroy that which mankind can not control. Isn't God at a much Higher Level than that?

You fail to Understand. Given enough lessons, Intelligence will choose the Best Choices. Sometimes kiddies must make the bad choice to discover that choice was really no choice at all. Is that really an excuse to hate and condemn them?

lostwanderingsoul said:

I would truly love to learn more. I thought angels were beings created by God before humans existed. If you have Bible verse that say otherwise please list them.

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I do not believe that angels are beings created by God before humans existed.

I do not have Bible verses but I have some writings from my religion about angels.

“The meaning of ‘angels’ is the confirmations of God and His celestial powers. Likewise angels are blessed beings who have severed all ties with this nether world, have been released from the chains of self and the desires of the flesh, and anchored their hearts to the heavenly realms of the Lord. These are of the Kingdom, heavenly; these are of God, spiritual; these are revealers of God’s abounding grace; these are dawning-points of His spiritual bestowals.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 81

“And now, inasmuch as these holy beings have sanctified themselves from every human limitation, have become endowed with the attributes of the spiritual, and have been adorned with the noble traits of the blessed, they therefore have been designated as “angels.” Such is the meaning of these verses, every word of which hath been expounded by the aid of the most lucid texts, the most convincing arguments, and the best established evidences.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 79-80

So what that means is that angels are humans who symbolize all that we see as good, holy and loving in the world, and after they die they go to the spiritual world, or heaven, and continue their good works.

In my religion, the Baha’i Faith, angels symbolize selfless people who have devoted themselves to service in this life. After they have passed onto the next life, or heaven, they continue to exert a positive influence upon those who are still in this earthly life. There are also angels who live in this world and those are beautiful people who make life better for others through their spirituality, selflessness, and acts of kindness.

If you want to read more about the Baha’i conception of angels, you can read this article:

Evil Spirits, Angels, Psychic Powers, and Aliens