Putting god first!

Unguru · Jun 15, 2019

JJ50 said:
It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.

You're basically just preaching to yourself. Next!

JJ50 · Jun 15, 2019

Unguru said:
You're basically just preaching to yourself. Next!

I am not preaching to anyone, just stating my point of view.

ChristineM · Jun 15, 2019

Road Warrior said:
Thanks for your opinion, but I continue to disagree.

Not my problem, the posts are there for anyone to see

ChristineM · Jun 15, 2019

stvdv said:
Exactly ... that is the answer ... talking about the beyond is just "waffle" because NOBODY knows
Hence the wise remain silent, even don't ask this kind of questions, knowing mind can't answer

We were not talking about the beyond, it was a straw man @Road Warrior brought up after the fact

stvdv · Jun 15, 2019

ChristineM said:
We were not talking about the beyond, it was a straw man @Road Warrior brought up after the fact

You said: My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?
You said: We were not talking about the beyond, it was a straw man

I see it different. Your question is about God and why He does what.
So to me that is about "the beyond", and I can't separate both things

But I see now that you have another view on this then I have
And want to thank you for pushing "you did not answer my question"
Because this made me realize more clear:
I can't answer this question about God because we did not even establish what "God" means
I won't start Q/A sessions on God again, without having 1 definition of God both agree on
And now, more clear than ever, I see why Saints escape into the Himalaya in silence

ChristineM said:
My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?

The suffering question came after but in relation to my original question

And opinion is not an answer to the question it is simply an acceptance in your mind.

Road Warrior said:
That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.

I can: Life is temporary. Eternal existence is, well you know, eternal. Will we be as ourselves? Doubtful. Consider a raindrop in the ocean. Does it still exist? Yes. Does it become something greater? Yes. Is this a matter of faith? Yes. How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time. Let's keep looking.

ChristineM said:
And how does that answer the question?

Life is life us temporary is valid but irrelevant to the question
Eternal is unknown whether it even exists
One can only be oneself, how can you be someone/something else?
No the raindrop does not continue to exist, fluid dynamics merges it with the surrounding water.
What is your context for beyond?

Road Warrior said:
That is the answer: There is no answer. It's all a guess.

ChristineM said:
So despite saying you can answer, the truth is, you cant

Road Warrior said:
No one can. Are you saying someone can tell you what lies beyond?

ChristineM said:
Nope but you said you could and then answered with dont know

Oh, and i think we have a different interpretations of beyond

Road Warrior said:
Please quote me where I claimed I could know what lay beyond the physical universe. I'm curious.

ChristineM said:
My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?

Your reply and i quote post #178 "That is a common question of atheists. One that Biblical God people often can answer.

I can : ..."

That is the statement i refer to, no need to move the goalposts by adding your own riders after the fact

stvdv said:
He said "I can answer" ... and he did. He did not claim "I can answer correctly"

He even said: "How can we know what is beyond? Not possible at this time"

I said something similar. And that is all we can do (IMHO because it is faith/belief not fact)
So when asking such a question, expecting to get facts, means you are not realistic
But I get the drift ... quite a few believers claim their belief is a fact ... so this is Newtons Law in action

ChristineM said:
Please read his post #178 in which he categorically stated "i can" answer my question then goes into a lot of waffle that does not answer the question.

stvdv said:
Exactly ... that is the answer ... talking about the beyond is just "waffle" because NOBODY knows
Hence the wise remain silent, even don't ask this kind of questions, knowing mind can't answer

ChristineM said:
We were not talking about the beyond, it was a straw man @Road Warrior brought up after the fact

Road Warrior · Jun 15, 2019

ChristineM said:
Not my problem, the posts are there for anyone to see

Yes they are.

ChristineM · Jun 15, 2019

stvdv said:
You said: My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?
You said: We were not talking about the beyond, it was a straw man

I see it different. Your question is about God and why He does what.
So to me that is about "the beyond", and I can't separate both things

But I see now that you have another view on this then I have
And want to thank you for pushing "you did not answer my question"
Because this made me realize more clear:
I can't answer this question about God because we did not even establish what "God" means
I won't start Q/A sessions on God again, without having 1 definition of God both agree on
And now, more clear than ever, I see why Saints escape into the Himalaya in silence

Please note the second quote, the fist you listed by @Road Warrior in which he clearly states "i can" answer the question followed by not actually answering the question but listing myriad reasons why he can't answer it. Which is my point. You may not like my point but it is only pertinant to the first 2 quoted posts. All the rest amount to his denials of his comment "i can".

stvdv · Jun 15, 2019

ChristineM said:
You may not like my point

You will never know for sure

ChristineM · Jun 15, 2019

stvdv said:
You will never know for sure

Be open, be honest, do you like my point or not?

stvdv · Jun 15, 2019

stvdv said:
You will never know for sure

ChristineM said:
Be open, be honest, do you like my point or not?

If I told you the truth ... I lied

Unguru · Jun 15, 2019

ChristineM said:
My question was why did a caring god create childhood leukemia?

What about these other questions:

Why didn't a caring god create childhood leukemia?

If there isn't a god, who created childhood leukemia?

If there isn't a god and you don't now care who created it, then why do you suddenly blame it on god when you do put into question god?

InChrist · Jun 15, 2019

Trailblazer said:
God’s love is elusive to me, and that is not because I am not a Christian, because other Baha’is do not feel the way I do at all.

I will continue to struggle with this…. It’s a journey.

If you have never read this book, I suggest you read it, as I think you will understand it.

Heaven and Hell

Thank you for the book suggestion. I will look into it, although with things going on in my life right now I may not get to it for awhile.
I find that that the more time I spend with Jesus, reading His words, and trusting His promises, the more I sense and understand the depth of His love. It is a journey, though...life long I think and then on into eternity.

Trailblazer · Jun 15, 2019

InChrist said:
Thank you for the book suggestion. I will look into it, although with things going on in my life right now I may not get to it for awhile.
I find that that the more time I spend with Jesus, reading His words, and trusting His promises, the more I sense and understand the depth of His love. It is a journey, though...life long I think and then on into eternity.

Indeed, the book suggests the journey to understanding Him will continue into eternity.

ChristineM · Jun 16, 2019

Unguru said:
What about these other questions:

Why didn't a caring god create childhood leukemia?

If there isn't a god, who created childhood leukemia?

If there isn't a god and you don't now care who created it, then why do you suddenly blame it on god when you do put into question god?

Having seen an innocent child die of leukemia i would think that any god who created a disease that causes that much suffering to the innocent and their parents is one sick minded god

Evolution created leukemia and just about every living thing on this ball of rock.

I do not blame anyone, i ask because i fail to understand how someone can create a mythology they claim created the universe and all the malevolence and horrors in it and worship that mythology as a good thing.

JJ50 · Jun 16, 2019

ChristineM said:
Having seen an innocent child die of leukemia i would think that any god who created a disease that causes that much suffering to the innocent and their parents is one sick minded god

Evolution created leukemia and just about every living thing on this ball of rock.

I do not blame anyone, i ask because i fail to understand how someone can create a mythology they claim created the universe and all the malevolence and horrors in it and worship that mythology as a good thing.

A good post with which I agree. Many Christians view the Biblical god wearing rose coloured spectacles and fail to see how unpleasant it is.

ChristineM · Jun 16, 2019

JJ50 said:
A good post with which I agree. Many Christians view the Biblical god wearing rose coloured spectacles and fail to see how unpleasant it is.

Cheers

There is such a lot of selective cherry picking going on to create a religious bubble. I have, on several occasions quoted the bible to be told either "it dies not say that" or "it does not mean that" .

Or they employ the time machine technique and say "well, if you consider that verse with this one from another book (and time) .Then jump to the NT and modify it with this verse) it doesnt mean what it says"

That is the time to take a break, take a couple of headache tablets, relax and say "sheesh".

IndigoChild5559 · Jun 16, 2019

JJ50 said:
It sickens me that some people consider their version of a god more important than their family, even their children. If a god does exist, it shouldn't be so far up its one rear end that it expects to come first and be worshipped. No one or thing is worthy of worship, especially not the Biblical god if the things stated in that book about it are true.

There are things that come before family. For example, let's say your husband asks you to help him murder someone. Do you see?

All things have their proper place.

JJ50 · Jun 16, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
There are things that come before family. For example, let's say your husband asks you to help him murder someone. Do you see?

All things have their proper place.

Of course I would never do anything illegal, and I would have no hesitation in reporting a member of my family to the police if they transgressed the law. That is rather different to putting a god, for which there is no verifiable evidence of its existence, before one's family.

IndigoChild5559 · Jun 16, 2019

JJ50 said:
Of course I would never do anything illegal, and I would have no hesitation in reporting a member of my family to the police if they transgressed the law. That is rather different to putting a god, for which there is no verifiable evidence of its existence, before one's family.

That's just baloney. For the person who has experienced God, his/her/its existence is no less real than the wind.

And morality, although it often seems obvious to us, isn't as carved in stone as we like to think. Had my husband and I been Vikings, seeking another's death would have been considered perfectly normal, not murder at all.

For me as a Jew, God and morality are absolutely inseparable. The reason I don't help my husband commit murder is because that is what God requires of me. IOW, I disobey my husband because God is more important.

But anyway, I'm glad you got my point that sometimes there are things more important than family.

JJ50 · Jun 17, 2019

IndigoChild5559 said:
That's just baloney. For the person who has experienced God, his/her/its existence is no less real than the wind.

And morality, although it often seems obvious to us, isn't as carved in stone as we like to think. Had my husband and I been Vikings, seeking another's death would have been considered perfectly normal, not murder at all.

For me as a Jew, God and morality are absolutely inseparable. The reason I don't help my husband commit murder is because that is what God requires of me. IOW, I disobey my husband because God is more important.

But anyway, I'm glad you got my point that sometimes there are things more important than family.

If your version of god told you to murder someone would you do it?

Putting god first!

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