-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Who are the people of Israel?
- Thread starter jvi
- Start date
- Status
Did you ask me a question? Sorry - ask again and I'll do my best.HelpMe said:
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
jvi said:
No proselytizing, please.
First of all. thanks for the honest question and well-meaning challenge. It deserves an honest and unambiguous response. So:jvi said:
- I believe that there is no evidence warranting the belief in God(s) or the Supernatural.
- I believe that the Torah is a primitive, man-made work, combining the efforts of numerous authors over a rather long period of time, and serving as folklore, propaganda, poetry, and civil code of conduct.
- I believe that the Exodus is a remarkable fable concerning the ethnogenesis of the Israelites.
- I believe that there is a slight probability for an historical Jesus, but that little or nothing by or about him (or them) has been preserved.
- I believe that the New Testament is the most preposterous piece of fabricated nonsense imaginable - a tribute to the pervasively superstitious period in which is was written and the thoughtless delusions of its most ignorant defenders. And, of course,
- I believe that the YHWH cult had its origins in Egypt and Edom before attracting a West Cannanite following in the high country of Israel.
Here is the word from another so-called by jvi, "anti-christ"!
He created the ( eth/entity)alphabet, whereby He spoke Torah, which is the mind of God.
Read the commentary in the Tanach on Gen. 1:1, it is stated as In the beginning. Those three words, then the next word is aleph tav, (meaning)alphabet. (first-born of creation) this is our redeemer, Yeshua. That is what the NT says Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
Mr 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Joh 1:34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said, I am the Son of God?
Re 19:13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Jeezues didn't even believe he was God! Only the subtle twist, twist, twist of the word of God by Christian Trinitarians, do we get an eternal Jesus! Anything eternal can not die! But the Son of God died and was resurrected by Y H V H the Eternal.
He created the ( eth/entity)alphabet, whereby He spoke Torah, which is the mind of God.
Read the commentary in the Tanach on Gen. 1:1, it is stated as In the beginning. Those three words, then the next word is aleph tav, (meaning)alphabet. (first-born of creation) this is our redeemer, Yeshua. That is what the NT says Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
Mr 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Joh 1:34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said, I am the Son of God?
Re 19:13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Jeezues didn't even believe he was God! Only the subtle twist, twist, twist of the word of God by Christian Trinitarians, do we get an eternal Jesus! Anything eternal can not die! But the Son of God died and was resurrected by Y H V H the Eternal.
John
The Word was in the beginning, was with God, and was God, created all things(which Genesis chapter 1 says God did), and then became flesh, and John the Baptist bare witness to this flesh, who was Jesus. Jesus is the Word, Jesus was in the beginning, was with God, was God, created all things, came into and took on the weakness of flesh so that the sins of man could be forgiven through his death. Jesus even says in the Bible "I and my Father are one", argue how you want, but take that with John 1 and you have Jesus is God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, three seperate persons one single God
. Somebody didn't just pull the Trinity out of his/her (rear-end), it is within the pages of the Bible.(Sorry for the OT)
I am sorry jvi, I just can't see this huge world-wide-millinia-long conspiracy happening(and yes I read that website in the OP).
HelpMe
·´sociopathic meanderer`·
please form a stronger argument if you want to be taken seriously.john 1 actually reads 'he was with the god', and jesus makes it plain that men are called this word(god) as well, john 10:34.'in the beginning does not mean that he created the angels since we know angels were around before heaven and earth(job38:7).Mister Emu said:
John 17:11,21,22-And I am no more in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are...
that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me.And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we [are] one.
that's quite a bit more people than 3, out the window with the 'trinity', lets call it the infiniti if being one with elohim makes us elohim.no verse paints equality, 'jesus' served his father before,during,and after his life.
Love it when you read and don't precieve what is read!Read it again:He created the ( eth/entity)alphabet, whereby He spoke Torah, which is the mind of God.Mister Emu said:John
The Word was in the beginning, was with God, and was God, created all things(which Genesis chapter 1 says God did), and then became flesh, and John the Baptist bare witness to this flesh, who was Jesus. Jesus is the Word, Jesus was in the beginning, was with God, was God, created all things, came into and took on the weakness of flesh so that the sins of man could be forgiven through his death. Jesus even says in the Bible "I and my Father are one", argue how you want, but take that with John 1 and you have Jesus is God. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, three seperate persons one single God
(Sorry for the OT)
Read the commentary in the Tanach on Gen. 1:1, it is stated as In the beginning. Those three words, then the next word is aleph tav, (meaning)alphabet. (first-born of creation) this is our redeemer, Yeshua. That is what the NT says Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;
Mr 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
Joh 1:34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God."
Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, You are blaspheming, because I said, I am the Son of God?
Re 19:13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
You quoted John 1, The Word (of God), look at the above sentence.
Jeezus said me and my wife are one also, Christianize that!:woohoo:
Check this out. A lighting of the antichrist Chabad Lubavitch menorah in our nation's capitol.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41819
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41819
According to www.blueletterbible.com the greek reads:
en arche en logos kai logos en pros theos kai logos en theos, which the KJV translates as stated above, the Word was both with God and was God.
It doesn't say that mean are called (Logos)the Word.
While it does say that all things that were made, were made by Him, and nothing was made without Him, even had it not been referring to angels, it means that the Word(Logos) created everything else(earth, man, animals) which if you read genesis, God created, now if John is true, and Genesis is true, than Jesus(the Word) is God.
Being in someone does not mean you are someone.
Thnak you for proving my point, we are to be one church with many persons, as there is one God with three persons.
I am sorry I have not seen a verse saying that we are God.
I percieve quite fine what I read, but thanks anyways.
He created the alphabet? Excuse me for (what must be) my ignorance, but where does it say this?
Where could I read this commentary, perferrably on the internet(I'm broke
)? Also is it the fourth word Gen, or is it the fourth in the commentary?I believe Yeshua was begotten not made, never denied that He is the Son of God, and one part of the Trinity.
If you say so.
UnBiblical, ok, everything(perhaps not the word begotten) I have said has been directly from the Bible, no adding, no taking away, no personal twisting of any kind, just what the Bible directly says.
Show me anywhere in the Bible that says "Jesus is not God", because the Bible "black and white" says "the Word was God", it also says "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." It doesn't say all things that were made except him, were made by him, it says all things. If He were made than something(Himself) was made without Him.
What have I added, or taken away, you won't find anything so I guess I don't have worry about woe from that :woohoo: .
If I have taken or added please show me, I dislike being unBiblical very much, if you can show me wrong please do so, I am a very open minded person
standing_on_one_foot
Well-Known Member
Hey, hey, guys, c'mon, no fighting please. Even with jvi, although I must admit I'm tempted. I'm sure multiple interpretations are possible here, and while discussion is good, let's try not to slip into bickering, hmm? Although I must admit, this is just my Mason, anti-christ, and longtime conspiracy-participant view of things...
Now then, on the bit about the alphabet, it's one interpretation, certainly. The first line goes "B'reisheet bara elohim et ha'shamaim v'et ha'aretz." It's the "et" we're talking about here. It doesn't exactly have a translation into English, but it's a word that goes before the subject of a verb if that subject is a noun that's specific (you know, "the dog," rather than "a dog") in Hebrew grammar. So in this case, it's going before ha'shamaim, the heavens, to indicate that it's the heavens we're talking about (although the "ha" in "ha'shamaim" does mean "the," so "et"'s just something extra that gets added). That's the literal interpretation. It's also true that as a sort of...poetic interpretation, if you will, and no less valid, in my opinion, you can interpret that as God creating the alphabet (the word et is spelled aleph-tav, which are the first and last letters of the alphabet). There's a lot of commentary like that, it's just a different way of looking at it. I'm not entirely sure where this commentary is, although I can ask my rabbi about it tomorrow, if you'd like
Now then, on the bit about the alphabet, it's one interpretation, certainly. The first line goes "B'reisheet bara elohim et ha'shamaim v'et ha'aretz." It's the "et" we're talking about here. It doesn't exactly have a translation into English, but it's a word that goes before the subject of a verb if that subject is a noun that's specific (you know, "the dog," rather than "a dog") in Hebrew grammar. So in this case, it's going before ha'shamaim, the heavens, to indicate that it's the heavens we're talking about (although the "ha" in "ha'shamaim" does mean "the," so "et"'s just something extra that gets added). That's the literal interpretation. It's also true that as a sort of...poetic interpretation, if you will, and no less valid, in my opinion, you can interpret that as God creating the alphabet (the word et is spelled aleph-tav, which are the first and last letters of the alphabet). There's a lot of commentary like that, it's just a different way of looking at it. I'm not entirely sure where this commentary is, although I can ask my rabbi about it tomorrow, if you'd like
Thank you.
If you would, thanks.
Ronald, I must (shudder) assume that you subscribe to the "poetic" interpretation of Gen 1. If so can you tell me how you read it please, I would like to see your view.
- Status