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Children should make up their own minds about religion

sooda

Veteran Member
Of all the "sins" you could've ranted about in this thread, you chose homosexuality. You didn't choose greed, murder, adultery, divorce, rape, etc. so apparently you think two consenting adults of the same sex having sex and being in love is worse than all of those. Furthermore, you chose to detail this thread just to rant about gays. Yes, that's obsessive and hateful.

There are so many, many sins in ancient Judaism that are punishable by death... Like sassing your parents or mixing your fabrics.

About a decade ago or maybe its been 15 years a bunch of old rabbis got together to talk about homosexuality... And, they decided that homosexuals have been around since the world began and God made them as well..

At the time I still had mixed feelings about same sex marriage.. and I just breathed a HUGE sigh of relief.. Made perfect sense that yes they were created by God..
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Of all the "sins" you could've ranted about in this thread, you chose homosexuality. You didn't choose greed, murder, adultery, divorce, rape, etc. so apparently you think two consenting adults of the same sex having sex and being in love is worse than all of those. Furthermore, you chose to detail this thread just to rant about gays. Yes, that's obsessive and hateful.

You're full of claptrap. Adulterers are two consenting adults also, so is that approved by God too? Not in a million years.

And the reason why I mentioned what I did was because I must have missed the ADULTERY PRIDE PARADES, or the RAPE AND MURDER PARADES. The only sin I've seen glorified, promoted, and legitimized by the Biblically challenged crowd is sodomy.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Having had the, 'you must be saved, or burn in hell', garbage forced on us by our parents as children, my husband and I allowed our children to make up their minds about the topic. We didn't force our lack of faith on them, although we did suggest they never accepted any faith or philosophy without asking relevant questions first. Our three girls are Christians, but very moderate in their approach to their faith, they are not Biblical literalists.

Have other posters taken this approach towards their own children?

I expect some influence as I am not completely neutral regarding religion nor can I be when other people in the family are not.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
You're full of claptrap. Adulterers are two consenting adults also, so is that approved by God too? Not in a million years.

And the reason why I mentioned what I did was because I must have missed the ADULTERY PRIDE PARADES, or the RAPE AND MURDER PARADES. The only sin I've seen glorified, promoted, and legitimized by the Biblically challenged crowd is sodomy.
Fornication is celebrated by society, divorce is quite common and easy to obtain (Jesus directly spoke against divorce in Matthew 19, of his few statements on sexual morality; note that he said nothing about homosexuality). Greed, narcissism, hubris and idolatrous nationalism and jingoism are all celebrated widely in American society. Yahweh himself said he destroyed Sodom not for homosexuality but for greed and lack of compassion for the needy (Ezekiel 16:49). Your god and Jesus have more important things on their minds but you chose to obsess over homosexuality while not saying a word about the very things your deity and Jesus were obviously most concerned with. To me, that's just fake Christianity and using religion as an excuse for bigotry.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Fornication is celebrated by society...

I must have missed the "Fornication Pride" parades, LOL.

Yahweh himself said he destroyed Sodom not for homosexuality but for greed and lack of compassion for the needy (Ezekiel 16:49).

The Word of God in Jude 7 confirms that part of God's Judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah was due to sexual perversion and immorality.

Your god and Jesus have more important things on their minds but you chose to obsess over homosexuality while not saying a word about the very things your deity and Jesus were obviously most concerned with. To me, that's just fake Christianity and using religion as an excuse for bigotry.

It just seems like that to the pro-sodomy crowd, who get butt hurt when their pet sin is exposed as a sin and an abomination.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The way I see it, children better be at least aware of the religious values and language of their own parents.

That this somehow ends up confused by many parents with odd attempts at deciding what the beliefs of those children should be shows how misguided certain creeds are.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
The way I see it, children better be at least aware of the religious values and language of their own parents.

That this somehow ends up confused by many parents with odd attempts at deciding what the beliefs of those children should be shows how misguided certain creeds are.

As a matter of general knowledge children should be taught about the world religions.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Having had the, 'you must be saved, or burn in hell', garbage forced on us by our parents as children, my husband and I allowed our children to make up their minds about the topic. We didn't force our lack of faith on them, although we did suggest they never accepted any faith or philosophy without asking relevant questions first. Our three girls are Christians, but very moderate in their approach to their faith, they are not Biblical literalists.

Have other posters taken this approach towards their own children?

You say this, but unless you are prepared to spend time teaching them about all the world's religions, YOU made the choice for them.

Btw, I find that most atheists ARE children who have made up their minds about religion. That is, if they didn't have parents repeat that stupid sentiment while forbidding they go to church.

So no danger of that. Either they were exposed to fundamentalist "you will burn in hell" religion and defected from it, had parents who told them they had a choice all the while being emotionally manipulative about the choice they made instead of respecting it, or they were the bratty kids who screamed and cried until they were taken out of church meaning the mom or dad had to miss the sermon while watching after them.

If it were my kid, I'd be like "fine you wanna make a choice, make it alone." And put them in the car and come back without them. So you know, I'm basically the theist equivalent of a parent who says " you should have a choice" then sneers or belittles you for choosing religion, but I'm honest with myself about it. You wanna carry on until you get your way, fine, but I'm not staying with you there. You get to learn about the loneliness of atheism.

This is but one of the reasons why I don't have children, besides wanting to skip the diaper phase.

Here's the thing that's missed with all of this talk of choice. I can pin down predictably which kids not only become atheists but also prevent their parents from attending church. They're the holy terrors that scream and cry so much that the parent who have no backbone and worry about what others think, stop going to church entirely.

Kids should have a choice? Oh yes, it's an easy buzzword. But the truth is, far too many kids already have chosen, not just for themselves but for their parents too. And very few atheists that say this have the courage to teach their kids about Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, paganism (Greek/Roman), Islam, Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, religious Taoism, Zen Buddhism, Mohism, animism, Amish belief, Nordic paganism, Egyptian religion, Aum Shinrikyo, Shintoism, Chinese ancestor worship, and this isn't the whole list.

A List of All Religions and Belief Systems

Without asserting their own bias and trying to make everything look stupid in comparison to atheism. Not much of a choice there if you either don't tell about it, or give the quick "these people thought their leader rose from the dead" saying it without explanation and so it makes them sound crazy. When given an honest choice, do most people become theists or atheists? As seen from my mentality on children, you know there are never honest choices. You can't show the kid all world religions without making significant excursions, and parents that leave their kids alone if they want to be bratty and cry their way out of church (like me) or parents that say "you have a choice" while sneering at their choice exist.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
You say this, but unless you are prepared to spend time teaching them about all the world's religions, YOU made the choice for them.

Btw, I find that most atheists ARE children who have made up their minds about religion. That is, if they didn't have parents repeat that stupid sentiment while forbidding they go to church.

So no danger of that. Either they were exposed to fundamentalist "you will burn in hell" religion and defected from it, had parents who told them they had a choice all the while being emotionally manipulative about the choice they made instead of respecting it, or they were the bratty kids who screamed and cried until they were taken out of church meaning the mom or dad had to miss the sermon while watching after them.

If it were my kid, I'd be like "fine you wanna make a choice, make it alone." And put them in the car and come back without them. So you know, I'm basically the theist equivalent of a parent who says " you should have a choice" then sneers or belittles you for choosing religion, but I'm honest with myself about it. You wanna carry on until you get your way, fine, but I'm not staying with you there. You get to learn about the loneliness of atheism.

This is but one of the reasons why I don't have children, besides wanting to skip the diaper phase.

Here's the thing that's missed with all of this talk of choice. I can pin down predictably which kids not only become atheists but also prevent their parents from attending church. They're the holy terrors that scream and cry so much that the parent who have no backbone and worry about what others think, stop going to church entirely.

Kids should have a choice? Oh yes, it's an easy buzzword. But the truth is, far too many kids already have chosen, not just for themselves but for their parents too. And very few atheists that say this have the courage to teach their kids about Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism, paganism (Greek/Roman), Islam, Sikhism, Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, religious Taoism, Zen Buddhism, Mohism, animism, Amish belief, Nordic paganism, Egyptian religion, Aum Shinrikyo, Shintoism, Chinese ancestor worship, and this isn't the whole list.

A List of All Religions and Belief Systems

Without asserting their own bias and trying to make everything look stupid in comparison to atheism. Not much of a choice there if you either don't tell about it, or give the quick "these people thought their leader rose from the dead" saying it without explanation and so it makes them sound crazy. When given an honest choice, do most people become theists or atheists? As seen from my mentality on children, you know there are never honest choices. You can't show the kid all world religions without making significant excursions, and parents that leave their kids alone if they want to be bratty and cry their way out of church (like me) or parents that say "you have a choice" while sneering at their choice exist.

Our children were permitted to choose, end of story.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
How on earth anyone who has actually read the bible can love the god therein, beats me.

I had the free will to lose my faith even though it didn't go down well with my parents. On his deathbed my father begged me to reconsider, I had no intention of doing so and therefore would not make that promise to enable him to die happy.

And the OP shows not only are they the sort of person who would refuse to even lie for their parent's happiness, but that they speak loads about choice but look down on the choice to follow the words of the Bible, exactly the sort of person I mentioned.

End of story, huh? Lemme guess, they all became atheist because you Really respected their choices.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
My parents too, but notice the saved or burn in hell stuff is not exactly drawn from the Bible books. You could read the Bible to your kids every night and they'd be fine as long as you didn't put them under the authority of a minister. Even the Bible records problems with ministers. They've always been a source of trouble apparently. I'd say probably they have been in all religions, trouble; generally. I don't mean each and every one is trouble. Its the authority, the means, the money.

So I'd say teach your kids any religion but don't put them under a spiritual hierarchy or super spiritual leader. Everybody should have the same clout and spiritual value, no one person more in touch with the spirit than another.

There's a library book in our library called Why Priests? A Failed Tradition.

I recommend everyone check this sucker out.

I believe we can do without priests. That said, I believe priests have a role, as long as you understand they are flawed humans and can sometimes tell you things that aren't so. Or that actively contradict things they've just said. A priest's best role is to get you to decide for yourself.

And I'd definitely agree with there. Why the Muslim became a jihadist terrorist? The inam told them they HAD to. Muslims reading quietly with their family? Not as much. The Brahmins don't do the other castes any favors either. And the Jewish priests at Jesus's time "devoured" the money of widows and orphans.

Titus 1:15 reminds me of the guy who met travelers seeking entry into the town. "What are ppl like in this town?" they ask. " What were they like in your old town? " Either "They were great, loving people and I'm sad I had to leave" or "They were scoundrels and backstabbers abd I'm glad I left". Perception is what you carry with you.
 
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syo

Well-Known Member
We didn't force our lack of faith on them, although we did suggest they never accepted any faith or philosophy without asking relevant questions first.
In my opinion, this is a great approach to the matter.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
As a matter of general knowledge children should be taught about the world religions.
And the OP shows not only are they the sort of person who would refuse to even lie for their parent's happiness, but that they speak loads about choice but look down on the choice to follow the words of the Bible, exactly the sort of person I mentioned.

End of story, huh? Lemme guess, they all became atheist because you Really respected their choices.
Did you get that from the OP? It seems to state directly that they are, in fact, Christians.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
You ever read something and midway through you just start to tune out details?

Maybe they're long-winded and it was too long to read, maybe you've heard the whole thing before, maybe you read the article title only and made a decision based on that?

Ideally in this world we all listen respectfully to people who represent things we can't stand, but that never happens for the same reason young children often don't hear the sermon cuz they cry and stuff.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Did you get that from the OP? It seems to state directly that they are, in fact, Christians.

Our children are Christians, their choice. Fortunately their take on the faith is moderate, they are not fundies or Biblical literalists.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
You really should read the Bible sometime.

I have. I even quote it from time to time to show how silly it is.

"Do you not realize that everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile them? For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)" - Mark 7:18-19

So, 1/3 of the god entity says shellfish and pork are abominations. Years later, another 1/3 of the god entity comes along and makes a comment that is misinterpreted by people who want to eat bacon regardless of what the original 1/3 said.

Of course, one could interpret "everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile them" as meaning that anal sex is OK.



And God did not destroy any seafood houses unless there was one in Sodom and Gomorrah.

It is obvious to all what you are trying to do here. I said nothing about seafood houses being destroyed. The reason you bring it up is to try to distract from the fact that you feel it's OK to ignore those of God's laws you dislike and support those you do like. This is the basis for your homophobia.[/QUOTE]
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
my late wife spent many hours a week working for the churk in one way or another for many years as a church warden and later as the "Flower "Lady" , but she would do just about anything needed.
My Daughter has ended up much the same and has "Inherited" the Flower lady role, often going to the flower market in Manchester in the early hours of the morning, before the market closes.
My Son is very much the Atheist but the rest of us are just very liberal Christians.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
So, 1/3 of the god entity says shellfish and pork are abominations. Years later, another 1/3 of the god entity comes along and makes a comment that is misinterpreted by people who want to eat bacon regardless of what the original 1/3 said.

Got a flash for you: Jesus is Jehovah. Jesus Must be Jehovah

Of course, one could interpret "everything that goes into a person from outside cannot defile them" as meaning that anal sex is OK.

Yeah, the spiritually-challenged crowd is real good putting out that kind of folly.

It is obvious to all what you are trying to do here. I said nothing about seafood houses being destroyed. The reason you bring it up is to try to distract from the fact that you feel it's OK to ignore those of God's laws you dislike and support those you do like. This is the basis for your homophobia.

Once again, I do not fear homosexuals. I fear they may be lost come Judgment Day, based on numerous scriptures. You'd pat them on the back all the way down the road to perdition. With friends like that who needs enemies?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Btw, I find that most atheists ARE children who have made up their minds about religion. That is, if they didn't have parents repeat that stupid sentiment while forbidding they go to church.
Either they were exposed to fundamentalist "you will burn in hell" religion and defected from it, had parents who told them they had a choice all the while being emotionally manipulative about the choice they made instead of respecting it, or they were the bratty kids who screamed and cried until they were taken out of church meaning the mom or dad had to miss the sermon while watching after them.
Your comments make it obvious that you don't know anything about "most atheists". In fact, you know dam little about any atheists.

But that's OK. Keep propping up your silly biased beliefs if that makes you feel better about yourself. Many religious people do that.
 
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