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Question for all religions on here

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Bible is not a history book. It is a collection of writings that have been edited, redacted and compiled by different authors. Most of the books of the Bible are not original compositions, but changed over time by different writers. The importance of the Bible is not in accurate nor consistent texts.
Well put. I might add one major section is about a simple carpenter who never wrote a single word, about his life and the states of confusion he created in life and death! So millions of books about said carpenter and thousands of years of morphology and 1,000 years of discussion research and writing at the phd levels i am most certain we perfectly understand it!!!!
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Yeah i know that.But if you read the above list.Never does it say we.The correct translation should be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.Because if you look at Genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.Isn't the she departing part.Like the we part in Psalms 90:10?

If you look at Genesis 35:18.It says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.And if you look at Psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not our souls fly away.I think the correct translation might be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.If you look at the part where it says she was departing.It looks kind of like the we part of Psalms 90:10.So i am still confused.:confused:So i would like answers from a jw.And a nonjw.To compare back and forth.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
This is a belief that permeates almost all religions, both Christian and non-Christian.....but it finds no support at all in the Bible. The ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife at all. The only disembodied spirits that the Bible mentions are angels. Faithful angels always materialized in human form to bring their messages to God's servants, but demons had that ability taken away from them after the flood of Noah's day when they abused it. So who are these spirits that pretend to be our dead loved ones?

When you consider that this is basically saying that spiritism is OK because these are just the spirits of dead people, then it must be all right...but is that true?

God's law to Israel was....
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." (Deuteronomy 18:9-12 ESV)

If all spiritistic practices were forbidden by God, then calling them "abominations" indicates that these things were not just 'bad' but had to be avoided at all costs, because it meant putting oneself under the control of the demons.

Why would God forbid us to inquire of our dead loved ones whom we could freely communicate with in life, but not after death? It was because this is not who we are talking to. Demons masquerade as the dead to promote the first lie that the devil told in Eden...."you surely will not die". Yet God told Adam that they would simply return to the dust. There is no mention of an afterlife or an immortal soul in Genesis or any other Bible book. Satan has lied to mankind from the beginning, making suggestions and offering all manner of deception to gain his converts.....if we fall for them by going against what God says, then we place ourselves in harm's way. We will end up paying for it with our lives, according to the Bible.
Case of witch of Endor.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
If you look at Genesis 35:18.It says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.And if you look at Psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not our souls fly away.I think the correct translation might be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.If you look at the part where it says she was departing.It looks kind of like the we part of Psalms 90:10.So i am still confused.:confused:So i would like answers from a jw.And a nonjw.To compare back and forth.

I think i typed this same idea in a different post on this forum all ready.If i did i am sorry.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
If you look at Genesis 35:18.It says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.And if you look at Psalms 90:10 it says we fly away.Not our souls fly away.I think the correct translation might be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.If you look at the part where it says she was departing.It looks kind of like the we part of Psalms 90:10.So i am still confused.:confused:So i would like answers from a jw.And a nonjw.To compare back and forth.

“The Hebrew terms נפש nefesh (literally "living being"), רוח ruach (literally "wind"), נשמה neshamah (literally "breath"), חיה chayah (literally "life") and יחידה yechidah (literally "singularity") are used to describe the soul or spirit.”
 

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
Genesis 2:7
Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.


Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


Luke 23:46

Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

Ecclesiastes 9 Death Comes to All
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Case of witch of Endor.

Read the account in context. 1Samuel 28:3-25.

Saul had been abandoned by his God and his living prophets would not talk to him, so in desperation he consulted the last remaining spirit medium in the land to conjure up the spirit of Samuel who had advised him through his kingship, but had died. Saul himself had rid the land of spiritistic practices according to God's law at Deuteronomy 18:9-12.

If you read the account, Saul never laid eyes on Samuel nor did he hear a word he said...it all came from the woman who was in league with the demons. It wasn't Samuel whom he summoned, because God forbade his people to inquire of the dead. The dead are not living and God would never use this means of communication that he had forbidden, calling it an "abomination". If the living prophets would not speak to Saul, then why would a dead one?

Think about it....
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Read the account in context. 1Samuel 28:3-25.

Saul had been abandoned by his God and his living prophets would not talk to him, so in desperation he consulted the last remaining spirit medium in the land to conjure up the spirit of Samuel who had advised him through his kingship, but had died. Saul himself had rid the land of spiritistic practices according to God's law at Deuteronomy 18:9-12.

If you read the account, Saul never laid eyes on Samuel nor did he hear a word he said...it all came from the woman who was in league with the demons. It wasn't Samuel whom he summoned, because God forbade his people to inquire of the dead. The dead are not living and God would never use this means of communication that he had forbidden, calling it an "abomination". If the living prophets would not speak to Saul, then why would a dead one?

Think about it....
I think prohibition by itself implies that there was a problem. Witchcraft and divination in the Hebrew Bible - Wikipedia
 
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Diamond

Member
Read the account in context. 1Samuel 28:3-25.

Saul had been abandoned by his God and his living prophets would not talk to him, so in desperation he consulted the last remaining spirit medium in the land to conjure up the spirit of Samuel who had advised him through his kingship, but had died. Saul himself had rid the land of spiritistic practices according to God's law at Deuteronomy 18:9-12.

If you read the account, Saul never laid eyes on Samuel nor did he hear a word he said...it all came from the woman who was in league with the demons. It wasn't Samuel whom he summoned, because God forbade his people to inquire of the dead. The dead are not living and God would never use this means of communication that he had forbidden, calling it an "abomination". If the living prophets would not speak to Saul, then why would a dead one?

Think about it....
No need to think about this at all,it's a story in a book that can't be proven to be true.Sorry I'm just not gonna live in fear just because of some words in a book.What is the harm in communicating with someone who has passed on? what would it hurt?Why would God forbid it?give me some valued reasons.
 

Diamond

Member
Diamond.Can you reply to my quote right above this?
It's hard for me to reply to your quote because I feel the bible is all full of inconsistences and contradictions and stuff no one can prove at all. I don't feel when the Creator created man-kind he just let you live for awhile then cease to exist anymore,why would he do that? that's why I feel the soul he put in our human body is everlasting, never dies; only the physical body ceases to exist we are soul living in a body while here on earth but your soul continues on to experience and learn more and more spiritually about the awesome Universe he has created for us.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.:confused:

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

My question is this.Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die?But in Psalms 90:10.And Job 20:7-9.It doesn't.:confused:

The problem is your expectations of ancient scriptures that have no significant provenance.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
I don't believe in the bible,it's a book of unproven theory to me,I am one of those people who feel the soul lives on after the body dies! we aren't a body with a soul,we are soul in a body,that continues this spiritual journey that the Creator put us here for after physical body cease to exist.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
As a liberal I think the Bible itself lacks consistency on the issue, but considering the evidence that the Bible is a collection of multiple authors over multiple time periods why would we be surprised at the lack of consistency?
We really have no idea who really wrote the great story book or any of it's "scriptures". Man wrote it!! Man!! who knows it could have been written by a bunch of book club members who got together to write a fictional novel not knowing it would take off as it has,but that could be the reason there is so much inconsistencies and contradictions. We just don't know.There's no proof.
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
This is a belief that permeates almost all religions, both Christian and non-Christian.....but it finds no support at all in the Bible. The ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife at all. The only disembodied spirits that the Bible mentions are angels. Faithful angels always materialized in human form to bring their messages to God's servants, but demons had that ability taken away from them after the flood of Noah's day when they abused it. So who are these spirits that pretend to be our dead loved ones?

When you consider that this is basically saying that spiritism is OK because these are just the spirits of dead people, then it must be all right...but is that true?

God's law to Israel was....
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." (Deuteronomy 18:9-12 ESV)

If all spiritistic practices were forbidden by God, then calling them "abominations" indicates that these things were not just 'bad' but had to be avoided at all costs, because it meant putting oneself under the control of the demons.

Why would God forbid us to inquire of our dead loved ones whom we could freely communicate with in life, but not after death? It was because this is not who we are talking to. Demons masquerade as the dead to promote the first lie that the devil told in Eden...."you surely will not die". Yet God told Adam that they would simply return to the dust. There is no mention of an afterlife or an immortal soul in Genesis or any other Bible book. Satan has lied to mankind from the beginning, making suggestions and offering all manner of deception to gain his converts.....if we fall for them by going against what God says, then we place ourselves in harm's way. We will end up paying for it with our lives, according to the Bible.
Can you tell me why would these things be forbidden by God,as the bible says?
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
Yall sure give demons a lot of power.you said the bible mentions Angels,so why can't Angels come and give us guidance and inspiration today?and what about those guardian angels who were once your loved ones and come to help us from time to time!! in different ways that's communicating with "the dead".you said demons got the ability taken away from them right?well how would they now pretend to be our loved ones?doesn't make any sense at all.further more why would they have that ability anyway, how did they get the ability to misuse,I can't see The Creator giving demons a gift?see why I don't believe the bible is true.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
No need to think about this at all,it's a story in a book that can't be proven to be true.Sorry I'm just not gonna live in fear just because of some words in a book.What is the harm in communicating with someone who has passed on? what would it hurt?Why would God forbid it?give me some valued reasons.
Fake news from Canaan demons.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
explain I don't follow you.
Sons of Israel received instruction from their God and those instruction were different from those of God's of Canaan, to protect Sons of Israel from wrong information, undermining God's instruction, e.g. human sacrifices, cannibalism . General demon tricks too.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
“The Hebrew terms נפש nefesh (literally "living being"), רוח ruach (literally "wind"), נשמה neshamah (literally "breath"), חיה chayah (literally "life") and יחידה yechidah (literally "singularity") are used to describe the soul or spirit.”

Actually the word for 'breath' is neshimah נשימה.
נשמה neshamah means soul.
 
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