The Mysterious Alien Tablet

Dan From Smithville · Jun 13, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
100% false. If you had actual evidence in support of Creationism?

You would have posted it decades ago... and Charles Darwin wouldn't even be a footnote in history, as the overwhelming evidence for creationism would have eclipsed his work.

That didn't happen-- because there is no evidence in support of creationism-- none.

If you ask me to provide evidence for the existence of God, I cannot do it. I know this and as a Christian, I am not even supposed to pretend I can provide something I know I cannot. The existence of God cannot be proven, nor can it be disproved.

But a specific assertion about creation is another story. I do not know of any evidence that supports the biblical creation story or any other religious creation story and there is only evidence that would lead to a rejection of the assertion. Those facts do not refute God, but creationists do not seem to be able to understand the difference. False attempts to translate creation stories into science does not change it from religion to science. They do not want to understand that either from what I see.

For some people, it seems that recognizing reality would destroy their belief in God so they have to jump through a bunch of imaginary hoops to maintain their own beliefs.

Where you and I would part ways is that I do believe in a god that was the source of creation in some way that I neither know nor understand, but that does not have to leave us as opponents in a struggle of ideology against a lack of belief in that ideology. Since I make no assertions about physical reality using that belief, it opens up an almost paradoxical condition where you and I can have more rational discussions than I can have with a fundamentalist creationist that shares the same religion I do.

Isn't life strange and interesting.

Polymath257 · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
You did as expected. You just won't deal with the real issue. Which is your right but doesn't make you right by avoiding the issue.

I couldn't get past the first page without subscribing. But it is clear what the argument will be: that DNA is so unusual that we have to attribute intelligence to its 'design'.

Well, the problem comes rather quickly in your link. At no place in the DNA is there a blueprint for the body. At no place are there pictures or plans for how the body will work. And no, we did NOT use such pictures or plans to learn how to 'decode' DNA.

And, second (remember I couldn't get past the subscription page), it is NOT a positive sign of design that DNA is read both directions. If anything, that is a good sign of it NOT being designed!

Remember, at no place in the DNA is there an instruction for, say, building an arm. There isn't even a conditional instruction (when in this environment, build like this), although that is closer to the truth. There is simply no way to just read the DNA and determine what sort of creature it codes for. We *can* determine what sort of proteins it codes for, but to understand the organism as a whole, you have to know the chemical environment at each stage, including that of the ovum and sperm where the coding was provided.

And, we can go deeper. How do we determine whether something is 'designed by an intelligence' as opposed to 'evolved from mutation and selection'? Both processes are good at producing complex interactive systems. And so the *real* question is which is the better explanation of what we see in biology.

And the best way to distinguish between these is that *design* does not generally produce nested hierarchies of inheritance. The idea is that evolution tends to produce new stuff by modifying old stuff. And the inheritance is in a tree-like form based on how species split.

Design, on the other hand, tends to take ideas from one source and use them in a completely unrelated situation. It produces new things by complete redesign or by using ideas from far-flung previous designs, not by modifying badly working aspects of the current system.

And which do we actually see in the biological world? Nested hierarchies with modifications from previous things in the same inheritance line? Or do we see ideas from one source transferred immediately to a completely different line of inheritance? Do we see modification and inheritance or do we see large-scale changes applied across the board?

Well, the evidence is clear. We see nested hierarchies and modification with descent. That is why we know it was evolution and not intelligent design.

Polymath257 · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
I could stand on a road informing people the bridge is out. If people heed the warning their life is saved from going over & down a mountain the bridge. covered. If ignored & fully believed I was wrong & continued on. Consequences are theirs not mine since I did best I could.

And if the road is in the middle of a desert, with no mountains or water, and you are on the road warning people about a bridge being out where no bridge is on the map, nobody has ever seen a bridge there, and the road has been operational for years?

Can you see why someone might not believe you when you say the bridge is out and they might fall off a cliff?

blü 2 · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
This is an article that makes a great analogy showing how Intelligent Design is unavoidable and especially if it were to occur this way.

Argument from analogy depends on the quality of the analogy.

And I'm not persuaded that your article's analogy is good enough to be persuasive.

And the underlying argument, that complexity necessarily implies intelligent design, is simply untrue.

Revoltingest · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
You did as expected.

Tis a risky personal criticism to make when one could be subjected to the same.

HonestJoe · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
Ok so here's the deal. You're trying to tell or sell me on the idea or concept that language, be it written, oral, sign etc shows no sign of Intelligence & just comes about w/o any Intelligence involved. That's what evolution sells.

That isn’t what evolution sells (evolution isn’t “selling” anything).

Regardless, you’re jumping ahead here. This thread is about the article you posted (or tried to – at least some of us were able to read it and it was nothing new or special) and the assertions it made. Those were;
- That some specific characteristic of DNA could only possibly be created by some form of intelligence.
- That the existence of an intelligent creator somehow invalidates any and all evolutionary theory.
- And, if only by implication, that the intelligent creator is definitely the specific version of the Christian God the authors believe in.

All three of those assertions are being questioned, at least in their definitive certainty. I doubt many of us here have the technical expertise to really understand the DNA aspect but the other two are fairly straight forward (and all too common) logical errors. It really boils down to whether you can accept and admit that you (like everyone else) can’t really know the answer to any of this. We’re all just floundering in the dark.

Patriottechsan · Jun 14, 2019

Salvador, You can't do with any other book except in small rare sample what the Bible Codes do numerous times & many times. Of course it must be done in its original text. That's why in any translation it won't work plus many full meanings are missed because for example English since that's how this thread is written, doesn't have correct corresponding words for exact translation.

DNA to does have the code for the body & the article finally got posted on the other thread. Yes DNA/RNA can & has to be read in. multiple directions & is in 3D. It is in fact the most complex "computer" code ever discovered & mankind can't match it. Yet the computee code man does write everyone takes intelligence from the early beginning ones to the more complex of today.

To not admit that is pure foolishness on anyone's part that does so.

Ironically, As much as you'll hate & scoff at this. You & your attitude along with many others was predicted in the Bible thousands of yrs ago. There have always been scoffed, skeptics, atheists etc. So that isn't it exactly. The proof has become so powerful for ID & God of the Bible for many reasons including fulfilled prophecy.
Your types are mentioned specifically as we get closer to the Rapture of the true believers that stood firm & w/o compromise to escape the wrath of God's judgement. Which not only does He have the right but obligation to honor everyone's desire of an eternity w/o the God they've rejected despite the warnings from Him & His people & explaining how bad it will be. It's the path you've chosen. I'm truly heartbroken by it. But I'll certainly let you have the future you desire. I've given you links to find answers to questions & doubts & where to access FREE MATERIAL. I can't help those that refuse to see what's so plainly obvious & as each discovery is made is making it moreso. Start Reading in Romans chapter 1:18 on to end of the chapter. Plus where scoffed will says, where is the second coming things still remain the same. Yet in the twinkling of an eye it changes.

Eternity is too long too be wrong. Society throughout the world is getting as it was in the days of Noah. One of the signs.

I love you with the love of the Lord & I pray someday you truly find the truth you need that you don't realize maybe. Being created in God's image means there is a small teller in your soul that your missing if one admits it. Unless you self kill it by conyi gal rejection & then God will leave you alone to yourself & your choice.

Personally Honestly I don't grasp how you don't see what's so obvious. Esp with my background growing up in such a hypocritical & abusive "Christian" home.

Yet Evolution still never made sense to me. Too many assumptions & holes & even growing up the math odds & just so stories w/o real science demonstration. Just inferences w/o proof. I couldn't buy it.

Yet when I did my personal study on religions. Much to my surprise & despite my own family's horrific example. The Bible tested out true in the many ways I tested it that others failed. Ironically now the internet place called www.apologeticspress.org now has a whole section devoted to answering questions for atheists & skeptics which wasn't available for me. Nor the many books now out written by people out to disprove it but after doing their research came out as believers due to being honest academics above their own bias & agenda. That's rare today.

You still never actually personally tried to sell me on how a communication system be it computer, language, sign etc can arise w/o INTELLIGENCE. Computer programs sure can't. Why you don't really attempt. Because it would take coming up with an alphabet etc. Definitions, words etc. Again sell me those can occur w/o INTELLIGENCE. You know you can't. So you use diversionary tactics to avoid a direct answer which would expose the truth.

That's your choice despite its possible ultimate cost. Which BTW my cousin is now paying. He commited suicide w/o making the correct choice. It's heartbreaking to me. He was like an older brother I didn't have. Yet I had to honor his wishes despite knowing the price he'd pay. Not due to suicide but rejection of the Lord.

Sadly I wish you guys were academically honest as the man with 2 Dr degrees in Engineering from GA Tech that was like most of you & challenged me to a debate. Difference was despite being like you in activist atheism & skeptism & wanting to destroy me in the debate. He flowed the ground rules we BOTH set & he was academically honest & didn't let his bias overrule his academic honesty for the 2 yr debate 3 days a week for 1 hour each. I respected him so much for that as its a rare thing to find.

Bye got to go help my Mom. She just got her power back after that big storm hit Dallas. She's been out of electricity for days. Sadly as most of us know. When our parents get close to 90's they just won't leave their house hardly for any reason. I wish I had her good health. My grandmother on Moms side lived to 99 & her sister lived to 104. My Dads side is altogether different health wise genetically.
Oh well I guess I get to go to my eternal home sooner. Can't wait to see My Lord Jesus once I've finished the missions He created me for.

Polymath257 · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
DNA to does have the code for the body & the article finally got posted on the other thread. Yes DNA/RNA can & has to be read in. multiple directions & is in 3D. It is in fact the most complex "computer" code ever discovered & mankind can't match it. Yet the computee code man does write everyone takes intelligence from the early beginning ones to the more complex of today.
.

If *all* you had is the DNA, you would not be able to tell what sort of organism it would encode. That is because the 'encoding' requires the full machinery of mRNA, tRNA, feedback mechanisms, triggers for transcription, etc. It is simply NOT a code in the usual sense of the word. It isn't even 'communication' in the typical sense of the word.

Now, *information* does exist in the DNA (and surrounding chemicals), but that doesn't require intelligence to form. In fact, it is produced very easily by evolutionary mechanisms.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
DNA to does have the code for the body & the article finally got posted on the other thread. Yes DNA/RNA can & has to be read in. multiple directions & is in 3D. It is in fact the most complex "computer" code ever discovered & mankind can't match it. Yet the computee code man does write everyone takes intelligence from the early beginning ones to the more complex of today.

This is so very wrong, on so very many levels, I do not know where to start.

It's actually quite sad to witness such wrongness as the above.

In fact? I would call it Fractal Wrongness-- it's wrong at every level, and no matter how deep you dig into it.

$fractal-wrongness-you-are-not-just-wrong-you-are-recursively-33315692.png$

viole · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
This is an article that makes a great analogy showing how Intelligent Design is unavoidable and especially if it were to occur this way. Yet here it is right in front of us and ID is denied over and over despite how obvious it is. It shows how it is not about science it is about something much more as this articles analogy proves. Evolutionist would be all over this proving ID existed were this to happen. Yet when it is here you refuse to acknowledge it. So very very sad.

Hopefully this link works. If it works the article starts with page one on the right side. To read the next two pages you have to hit the arrow next to page one and then the next 2 pages will appear. Hope you enjoy and begin to wake up to the fraud of evolution. Yet I doubt you will due to it is much more than fraud science to you. It is a worldview you won't give up regardless. Hopefully this will help you realize what is real truth not the fraud you've been taught.

Creation - 2019 Volume 41, Issue 3 - page38

You are making a parody of creationists, right?

Ciao

- viole

Bob the Unbeliever · Jun 14, 2019

viole said:
You are making a parody of creationists, right?

Ciao

- viole

One would hope that were the case...

... sometimes, it's difficult to distinguish between a POE and an actual creationist, as there is little to distinguish the two.

Except that the POE's are sometimes more reasonable, by accident. It's sometimes difficult to maintain that level of ignorance in every aspect of speech.

ecco · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
Ok so here's the deal. You're trying to tell or sell me on the idea or concept that language, be it written, oral, sign etc shows no sign of Intelligence & just comes about w/o any Intelligence involved. That's what evolution sells.

If you think that's what evolution says, then one would have to wonder where you learned about evolution.

Well, let me guess, you learned all about evolution from the same or very similar site you linked for your article.

There are other places to learn about evolution. You make it very clear that your knowledge of evolution is based on willful ignorance.

John53 · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
Yet when I did my personal study on religions. Much to my surprise & despite my own family's horrific example. The Bible tested out true in the many ways I tested it that others failed.

Then it should be simple for you to present your research and convince us. That would be a better tactic than your usual insults and threats.

ecco · Jun 14, 2019

Salvador said:
A group of 33 scientists and authors, who've authored the journal article "Cause of Cambrian Explosion - Terrestrial or Cosmic" published in the March issue of the scientific peer-reviewed journal "Progress in Biophysics and Molecular Biology, suggests octopuses are likely of extraterrestrial origin. Their conclusion that octopuses likely have an extraterrestrial origin is reached in part on the basis of the octopuses' particular ability to routinely edit their RNA sequences for adapting to their environment.

These 33 scientists and authors seem to make a compelling case for the extraterrestrial origin of octopuses when they point out that "The transformative genes leading from the consensus ancestral nautilus to the common cuttlefish to squid to the common octopus can’t be found in any pre-existing life form." A plausible reason for this is given as “It is plausible then to suggest they [octopuses] seem to be borrowed from a far distant ‘future’ in terms of terrestrial evolution, or more realistically from the cosmos at large.

The authors do make a valid point in support of their conclusion when they point out the " data on the somatic RNA diversification mechanisms in the behaviourally sophisticated Cephalopods such as Octopus. These data demonstrate extensive evolutionary conserved adenosine to inosine(A-to-I) mRNA editing sites in almost every single protein-coding gene in the behaviorally complex coleoid Cephalopods (Octopus in particular), but not in nautilus (Liscovitch-Brauer et al., 2017) ( Reference: Liscovitch-Brauer, et al.Trade-off between transcriptome plasticity and genome evolution in cephalopods Cell, 169 (2017), pp. 191-202)
This enormous qualitative difference in Cephalopod protein recoding A-to-I mRNA editing compared to nautilus and other invertebrate and vertebrate animals is striking. Thus in transcriptome-wide screens only 1–3% of Drosophila and human protein coding mRNAs harbour an A-to-I recoding site; and there only about 25 human mRNA messages which contain a conserved A-to-I recoding site across mammals. In Drosophila lineages there are about 65 conserved A-sites in protein coding genes and only a few identified in C. elegans which support the hypothesis that A-to-I RNA editing recoding is mostly either neutral, detrimental, or rarely adaptive (reviewed in Liscovitch-Brauer et al., 2017). (Reference: (Reference: Liscovitch-Brauer, et al.Trade-off between transcriptome plasticity and genome evolution in cephalopods Cell, 169 (2017), pp. 191-202) Yet in Squid and particularly Octopus it is the norm, with almost every protein coding gene having an evolutionary conserved A-to-I mRNA editing site, resulting in a nonsynonymous amino acid change (Liscovitch-Brauer et al., 2017). (Reference: Liscovitch-Brauer, et al. Trade-off between transcriptome plasticity and genome evolution in cephalopods Cell, 169 (2017), pp. 191-202) This is a virtual qualitative jump in molecular genetic strategy in a supposed smooth and incremental evolutionary lineage - a type of sudden “great leap forward”. Unless all the new genes expressed in the squid/octopus lineages arose from simple mutations of existing genes in either the squid or in other organisms sharing the same habitat, there is surely no way by which this large qualitative transition in A-to-I mRNA editing can be explained by conventional neo-Darwinian processes, even if horizontal gene transfer is allowed. " One plausible explanation, in our view, is that the new genes are likely new extraterrestrial imports to Earth. ...''

From your link...

ISSN: 0079-6107
Progress in Biophysics & Molecular Biology
An International Review Journal

Is an "International Review Journal" the same as a "scientific peer-reviewed journal"?

However, if the article is true that octopi originated on another planet, then perhaps this is how they envision God.

flying-spaghetti-monster-vector-clip-260nw-188441972.jpg

ecco · Jun 14, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
The existence of God cannot be proven, nor can it be disproved.

Did Atlas ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Shiva ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Olokun ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Set ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?

If all gods (except one) were the creation of man's imaginings, why do you suppose that one is real?

ecco · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
Eternity is too long too be wrong.

Eternity is too long to be right. Do you really want to exist for eternity?

How many times can Granny kiss you on the cheek before you want to scream?
How many times can you eat the perfect banana split before you want to scream?
How many times can you explore every planet in every galaxy before you want to scream?

Remember - it never ends. Never! You will run out of new things to do long before you run out of time. You will do everything trillions of times and you will still have eternity to do them all again and again and again. And then you will still have eternity to .....

ecco · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
Eternity is too long too be wrong. Society throughout the world is getting as it was in the days of Noah. One of the signs.

Thanks for admitting that all of your anti-science, anti-evolution views are just the result of your religious indoctrination.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 14, 2019

ecco said:
Did Atlas ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Shiva ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Olokun ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Set ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?

If all gods (except one) were the creation of man's imaginings, why do you suppose that one is real?

Why does it matter to you. I am not preaching it. I am not telling you things to do based on my religion. You have a problem, take it up with someone else. I didn't name ya.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 14, 2019

ecco said:
Did Atlas ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Shiva ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Olokun ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?
Did Set ever exist or was he the creation of man's imaginings?

If all gods (except one) were the creation of man's imaginings, why do you suppose that one is real?

I get it. You're an activist atheist that gives all the other atheists a bad name. Fine. Why does it bother you so much that other people would have beliefs? Why do you have to challenge even those that do nothing to you?

Where are you going with this? What do you expect to achieve here? Is it going to be that if I provide some scientific information that you would be in agreement with, but since I am a Christian, you are going to challenge me on it? What? Come on dude. You're starting to look like a caricature.

If I provide information about science that is wrong, then call me on it. If you do, I will. If you provide factual information that I agree with, I will agree with you. If you say you are an atheist, I accept that and have no issues with it. If you call out a creationist for babbling their babble, I will probably have beaten you to it.

Where you going with this? You just looking for a fight? Do you feel the need to beat up on someone? Your entire point of this is lost on me, except as gratuitous behavior.

Dan From Smithville · Jun 14, 2019

Patriottechsan said:
Salvador, You can't do with any other book except in small rare sample what the Bible Codes do numerous times & many times. Of course it must be done in its original text. That's why in any translation it won't work plus many full meanings are missed because for example English since that's how this thread is written, doesn't have correct corresponding words for exact translation.

DNA to does have the code for the body & the article finally got posted on the other thread. Yes DNA/RNA can & has to be read in. multiple directions & is in 3D. It is in fact the most complex "computer" code ever discovered & mankind can't match it. Yet the computee code man does write everyone takes intelligence from the early beginning ones to the more complex of today.

To not admit that is pure foolishness on anyone's part that does so.

Ironically, As much as you'll hate & scoff at this. You & your attitude along with many others was predicted in the Bible thousands of yrs ago. There have always been scoffed, skeptics, atheists etc. So that isn't it exactly. The proof has become so powerful for ID & God of the Bible for many reasons including fulfilled prophecy.
Your types are mentioned specifically as we get closer to the Rapture of the true believers that stood firm & w/o compromise to escape the wrath of God's judgement. Which not only does He have the right but obligation to honor everyone's desire of an eternity w/o the God they've rejected despite the warnings from Him & His people & explaining how bad it will be. It's the path you've chosen. I'm truly heartbroken by it. But I'll certainly let you have the future you desire. I've given you links to find answers to questions & doubts & where to access FREE MATERIAL. I can't help those that refuse to see what's so plainly obvious & as each discovery is made is making it moreso. Start Reading in Romans chapter 1:18 on to end of the chapter. Plus where scoffed will says, where is the second coming things still remain the same. Yet in the twinkling of an eye it changes.

Eternity is too long too be wrong. Society throughout the world is getting as it was in the days of Noah. One of the signs.

I love you with the love of the Lord & I pray someday you truly find the truth you need that you don't realize maybe. Being created in God's image means there is a small teller in your soul that your missing if one admits it. Unless you self kill it by conyi gal rejection & then God will leave you alone to yourself & your choice.

Personally Honestly I don't grasp how you don't see what's so obvious. Esp with my background growing up in such a hypocritical & abusive "Christian" home.

Yet Evolution still never made sense to me. Too many assumptions & holes & even growing up the math odds & just so stories w/o real science demonstration. Just inferences w/o proof. I couldn't buy it.

Yet when I did my personal study on religions. Much to my surprise & despite my own family's horrific example. The Bible tested out true in the many ways I tested it that others failed. Ironically now the internet place called www.apologeticspress.org now has a whole section devoted to answering questions for atheists & skeptics which wasn't available for me. Nor the many books now out written by people out to disprove it but after doing their research came out as believers due to being honest academics above their own bias & agenda. That's rare today.

You still never actually personally tried to sell me on how a communication system be it computer, language, sign etc can arise w/o INTELLIGENCE. Computer programs sure can't. Why you don't really attempt. Because it would take coming up with an alphabet etc. Definitions, words etc. Again sell me those can occur w/o INTELLIGENCE. You know you can't. So you use diversionary tactics to avoid a direct answer which would expose the truth.

That's your choice despite its possible ultimate cost. Which BTW my cousin is now paying. He commited suicide w/o making the correct choice. It's heartbreaking to me. He was like an older brother I didn't have. Yet I had to honor his wishes despite knowing the price he'd pay. Not due to suicide but rejection of the Lord.

Sadly I wish you guys were academically honest as the man with 2 Dr degrees in Engineering from GA Tech that was like most of you & challenged me to a debate. Difference was despite being like you in activist atheism & skeptism & wanting to destroy me in the debate. He flowed the ground rules we BOTH set & he was academically honest & didn't let his bias overrule his academic honesty for the 2 yr debate 3 days a week for 1 hour each. I respected him so much for that as its a rare thing to find.

Bye got to go help my Mom. She just got her power back after that big storm hit Dallas. She's been out of electricity for days. Sadly as most of us know. When our parents get close to 90's they just won't leave their house hardly for any reason. I wish I had her good health. My grandmother on Moms side lived to 99 & her sister lived to 104. My Dads side is altogether different health wise genetically.
Oh well I guess I get to go to my eternal home sooner. Can't wait to see My Lord Jesus once I've finished the missions He created me for.

Good grief.

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