Lies and Phony Caricatures of Christianity

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

Just for fun I am going to address the OP one more time:

usfan said:
As requested by a poster, i am listing a set of what i perceive to be caricatures and phony narratives about Christianity.

This assumes a specific, exact, historical definition of Christianity, as defined by the Founder.

1. Christians hate science.

No, some Christians hate science. Or are totally ignorant of it. If one demands that the myths of Genesis are true then one is in that category.

2. Christianity is responsible for all wars, exploitation, and oppression.

Not all wars etc., but a fair share of them. By the way, by twice over stating a claim makes it a strawman so we have two fake claims by the OP so far.

3. Christianity is the same as islam, but not as peaceful.

This is beyond anything that I have heard people say. Muslims might try to claim it is not the same as Islam, but they have their own deluded beliefs about Islam.

Three fake claims.

4. Muslims would love us, and live in harmony, if they weren't triggered by the hateful Christians.
5. American Christians want a theocracy.
6. American Christians want to ban all books but the bible.

Three more quick fake claims. Six claims so far, all six of them fake.

7. The bible is the source of all hate and oppression in the world.

Not even close. Another gross over exaggeration. Seven for seven so far.

8. Christians want to force everyone to believe, and go to church.

See above. Eight out of eight.

9. Christians hate atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, muslims, Hindus, and any who do not believe as they do.

Nine out of nine.

10. America was founded by irreligious skeptics, who saw the evil of Christianity and tried to keep them from meddling in the lives of others.

He's on a roll folks.

11. Christians want to control and manipulate everyone.

Agaian, some, not all. You have yet to get one claim right.

12. Christians cannot reason or follow science, as they are blinded by their superstitions.

Some, not all. Once again, strawmanning your claims makes them invalid.

13. The bible is full of errors.

And the streak is broken at twelve! This one, though poorly worded appears to be true. I wonder how he is going to refute it?

14. The bible has changed many times.

Poorly worded since he does not tell us what would be considered a change. Or how many times must the Bible change to qualify for many times? He is back on a roll again.

15. Hitler was a Christian.

Though it is hard to say exactly what religion he had, Christianity appears to be on the top of the list. One thing is clear, he was not an atheist.

16. Christianity is an opiate for humanity, squashing free expression.

Again an over statement. It is for many. It is not for all.

There are more, and i am sure the helpful posters here will chime in with additional false narratives. We can debate the merits of each charge, to see if there is any validity, or if they are bigoted smears, from a competing ideology.

I look forward to a civil and informative discussion.

Since you got an amazing 14 out of 16 wrong at least, and you do not seem to want to discuss claims that were correct does this thread even have a reason for existing?

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

usfan said:
What claims???

Debating with progressive indoctrinees is maddening...

I am REFUTING the claims that, 'the bible is full of errors!', and other such smears toward Christianity. YOU have the burden to evidence your accusations. I can only dismiss unbased accusations.

I cannot understand why that is so hard to grasp..

..propably just a progressive tactic.. Orwellian confusion to frustrate your enemy.. ..sorta works..

But I'll probably start to ignore or skip over the Proggy Hop demands..

..just don't feel like hopping, i guess..

..carry on. I don't have the time or inclination to expose the deluge of propaganda that is pitched here. So, for those who think truth is dependent on loud repetition, hysteria, and hostile accusations, the Dark Ages called.. they look forward to a rebirth.

But you have not even touched on any of the errors in the Bible. How can you even begin to refute them?

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

Spartan said:
And it's not hard to find left-wing progressive nonsense on the web either.

Now all you need to do is to work on your ability to recognize them.

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

usfan said:
To the topic..

Christians hate education!'

..another popular caricature, from the anti-christian propagandists.

1. American education was founded upon Christian principles, and the desire to instruct the people in biblical values and moral behavior. Congress approved a bible to be printed and distributed for training, education, and instruction.
2. The mission statements of prestigious universities were overtly Christian and biblical, in their themes and goals.

Harvard: “Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well the end of his life and studies is to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, and therefore to lay Christ in the bottom, as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning.”

American education, far from being 'hated!' by Christians, was begun, grown, and organized by Christians.. some under a denominational banner, some unaffiliated.

Now, though i am old, I'm not that old. I had nothing to do with crafting any mission statements from the ivy league universities, nor did any of the founders text me asking for advice on wording or translating the Aitken Bible.

So any accusations that "Christians hate education!", is completely false, and any accusation that i, personally, 'hate education!', is as well.

In fact, i wish that my debating opponents had a small taste of liberal arts education, and not just the revisionist Indoctrination from Progressivism..

Again this is a strawman claim on your part. SOME Christian sects of cults are against education. Not all of them.

If you want a discussion drop the strawman arguments.

usfan · Jun 13, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
But you have not even touched on any of the errors in the Bible. How can you even begin to refute them?

Exactly.

1. Quote the alleged error.
2. Evidence how it is an error.
3. I can then address the argument.

What is so hard about that? :shrug:

usfan · Jun 13, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
some Christians hate science. Or are totally ignorant of it. If one demands that the myths of Genesis are true then one is in that category.

Yes. So the narrative goes. You though, having omnipotent knowledge of all Science, can immediately tell when the science-hating Christian says something blasphemous!

Subduction Zone said:
Not all wars etc., but a fair share of them

Can you name one that you 'know!' was started, fought, and instigated by 'Christians!'?

Spartan · Jun 13, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Now all you need to do is to work on your ability to recognize them (progressive websites).

Not hard at all. The stench gives them away.

usfan · Jun 13, 2019

Spartan said:
And it's not hard to find left-wing progressive nonsense on the web either.

There is plenty in this thread!

..shows how effective propaganda is.

usfan · Jun 13, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
If you want a discussion drop the strawman arguments

ROFL!!

..like you want a 'discussion!' LOL!

you just practice ad hom and deflection, with no content.. just looking for 'gotcha!' words or phrases to trip up your hated enemies.

Strawman? You don't do those, much.. ad hominem seems to be your favorite fallacy.

It doesn't take me long to realize when a poster is just needling and demeaning, for presumably an ideological agenda.

None of my lists are strawmen. Some have been clearly illustrated in this thread, multiple times. But false accusations are also handy to use, when you don't have facts, reason, or arguments..

"I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence." ~William F. Buckley

sojourner · Jun 13, 2019

usfan said:
What claims???

Debating with progressive indoctrinees is maddening...

I am REFUTING the claims that, 'the bible is full of errors!', and other such smears toward Christianity

Those are your claims. By refuting the facts that the Bible has errors and has been changed, you are inferring (claiming) that the Bible does not have errors and has not been changed. I’m asking you to prove that it has no errors and has not been changed. You’re making an unfounded claim in your assumption of the Bible’s inerrant and unchanging character. Prove. It.

You began the thread by making the claim. Provide your evidence and we can debate. Otherwise, your assumptions are just unfounded, anti-Christian, wacko fundigelical nonsense.

usfan said:
I cannot understand why that is so hard to grasp..

I cannot understand why that is so hard to grasp...

sojourner · Jun 13, 2019

Spartan said:
I've got my theology degrees. You have what, more hot air?

Pedigrees, please. Degrees, where you graduated, and when. Otherwise it didn’t happen.

sojourner · Jun 13, 2019

Spartan said:
You're wrong on both counts.

“You’re wrong because... umm...
...

Because I said so!”

This is otherwise known as “The ‘Nuh-uh!’ Fallacy,” learned on second-grade playgrounds all over the world.

sojourner · Jun 13, 2019

Spartan said:
And it's not hard to find left-wing progressive nonsense on the web either.

That’s my point. The web isn’t a great resource, unless you’re accessing peer-reviewed scholarly journal articles.

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

usfan said:
Yes. So the narrative goes. You though, having omnipotent knowledge of all Science, can immediately tell when the science-hating Christian says something blasphemous!

No. One does not need to be omnipotent to know that Genesis is wrong. That is a mistake that those ignorant in the sciences make. One question, does your God lie?

Can you name one that you 'know!' was started, fought, and instigated by 'Christians!'?

Yes, and you can't No True Scotsman this, but quite a few. Almost all of the wars in Europe in the middle ages. That is a gimme since Christianity was universal. But let's take one specific one. The War of the Roses:

Wars of the Roses - Wikipedia

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

usfan said:
ROFL!!

..like you want a 'discussion!' LOL!

you just practice ad hom and deflection, with no content.. just looking for 'gotcha!' words or phrases to trip up your hated enemies.

Strawman? You don't do those, much.. ad hominem seems to be your favorite fallacy.

It doesn't take me long to realize when a poster is just needling and demeaning, for presumably an ideological agenda.

None of my lists are strawmen. Some have been clearly illustrated in this thread, multiple times. But false accusations are also handy to use, when you don't have facts, reason, or arguments..

"I would like to take you seriously, but to do so would affront your intelligence." ~William F. Buckley

A discussion would be nice. But you made error after error in your OP. You should not be offended by corrections. If you want a debate you lose the debate when you exaggerate.

And once again there was no one ad hom in there. You really really really should not use terms that you do not understand. When you do so you make yourself look either very dishonest or very ignorant.

And when have I made a strawman argument here? Please quote one. And most of your list are strawman arguments. Wait . . . you don't understand what a strawman is either. A strawman argument is when one makes a false claim about one's opponents positions. If you do not think that you strawmanned the beliefs of others then you put the burden of proof upon you. Prove all of your claims in the OP. If you can't they are garbage and no one needs to refute anything. When you make a positive claim you take on a burden of proof.

Lastly I made no false accusations. Again, you take on a burden of proof when you make that claim. Find a false accusation otherwise I can wave your accusation away.

Subduction Zone · Jun 13, 2019

Spartan said:
Not hard at all. The stench gives them away.

That is probably just your own backdraft.

oldbadger · Jun 14, 2019

usfan said:
Hop away, Proggy!

Divide and conquer, too! Now, if you can only get everyone on board with dehumanizing 'fundies!', or whatever demonizing term that works.. then you could call for cleansing! For the sake of humanity, to rid the world of this evil!!

ROFL!!

I love these great illustrations of the OP.

I have to admit, it does begin to look as if you might be a fanatical fundamentalist, and if there were enough of those to gain power anywhere, the changes in laws and controls would be more than worrying. They would be terrifying for so many decent folks, you know.

And because you have not proselytized or evangelised to any here this could mean that you are a predestination 'Christian'? A kind of closed-shop 'Christian'? Hmmmm.

But I'm sure you are right. No 'Christians!', have ever started, funded, or worked at any hospitals. You all 'know' that they just want to kill everyone, right?

Don't try and hide behind the high % Christians who are loving and humanitarian, matey.
You shout out your stuff and there's nothing there to back it up, is all.
And if yours is the face of true Christianity then I can only see it dwindling as the 21st century continues.

Fundy Christianity is Phony Christianity, because you don't actually follow what Jesus said and did, imo.

oldbadger · Jun 14, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
That is probably just your own backdraft.

The above sent to another........

Can you imagine what it would be like to live in a land that was controlled by these little darlings?

Can you imagine what their laws, controls and punishments would be?

Even slavery could return because Paul supported it.
Women would lose self-determination.
Equality for all would be thrown to the winds.
A balanced society where protection exists for any race, creed, religion, colour, gender, marital status, sexuality, disability, nationality would be utterly trashed.

And once they have given you a stench, and the evil mark, and dehumanised you, they could feel self justification in anything that they would do, methinks.

Subduction Zone · Jun 14, 2019

oldbadger said:
The above sent to another........

Can you imagine what it would be like to live in a land that was controlled by these little darlings?

Can you imagine what their laws, controls and punishments would be?

Even slavery could return because Paul supported it.
Women would lose self-determination.
Equality for all would be thrown to the winds.
A balanced society where protection exists for any race, creed, religion, colour, gender, marital status, sexuality, disability, nationality would be utterly trashed.

And once they have given you a stench, and the evil mark, and dehumanised you, they could feel self justification in anything that they would do, methinks.

On the up side I am a straight white male so all of those could be pluses for me. On the down side they hate atheists as much as anyone else so I would still be in trouble.

Oh well: What a friend we have in cheeeses.... At least that is the way I remember that hymn.

oldbadger · Jun 14, 2019

usfan said:
I know that pissy insults, and attempts at biting wit is the preferred 'debate' in these forums. But i will direct it back to the topic, from time to time, in case anyone wants to talk about it, rather than deflect with ad hom streams..

You have taught us well.

1. Christianity is responsible for most of the atrocities of humanity.
False.

1 Peter 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

Ephesians 6:5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear

2. The bible is full of errors.
False.

Luke {1:5} There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, (That's before 4BC folks)
Luke {2:1} And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed. (That's ten years later, in 6AD folks)

And so Mary was pregnant for ten long years. !!!

3. The bible has changed many times.
False.

The Gospel According to St. Mark
{1:1} The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son
of God;

But early bibles did not include 'the Son of God'.

4. Hitler was a Christian.
False.

True. Hitler was not a real Christian.
But are fundy extreme Christians real Christians?

5. Christianity is an opiate for humanity, squashing free expression.
False.

1 CORINTHIANS 16:22; GALATIANS 1:8-9 (Rebels to truth will be cursed}

6. The bible can be translated in many ways, and can mean whatever anyone wants it to mean.
False.

Was Jesus a Tecton, a Nagarra or a Magi?
These words can all mean the same thing.

7. Christianity demands a political theocracy, mandating Christian values as law.
False.

No.......... but Fundy Christians hope for one.

8. Christianity is an ideology of oppression, mandating conformity and submission to elites.
False.

Romans {6:14} ................ for ye (Christians) are not under the law, but under grace.

:facepalm:

9. Christianity is anti science.
False.

Remember Galileo

10. Christianity is anti education.
False.

1 Timothy {1:3} ...............that thou mightest charge some that
they teach no other doctrine, {1:4} Neither give heed to
fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions,
rather than godly edifying which is in faith

11. Christianity is bigoted and racist.
False.

1 Corinthians {11:6} For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or
shaven, let her be covered.

Lies and Phony Caricatures of Christianity

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