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Why NOT Religion

Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
AT-AT said:
I really don't want to spend all my time saying the same foul expression over and over but:

Good lord.
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Use your big boy words. If you get overwhelmed so easily you should probably retire from the site.
 
Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
I would ask you not to forget what Torquemada and the Catholic Church did during the Inquisition, or the Protestant Henry VIII, or the Catholic Mary I, or all the various protagonists of the Reformation and Counter Reformation, all of whom, I am led to believe were "true believers."

I would ask why you don't mention the destruction of the Huguenots by the Catholic French state (Louis XIV).

I could go on, but I know that you've already chosen your villains and decided that what they did was the result of atheism. This, of course, is not true in even the slightest way, but you refuse to see that ideologies like Communism, Marxism, Stalinism, Fascism, and so forth are all equally "religious" in nature, in that they didn't stop doing what they were doing even after they had obviously failed … until thinking people stepped in and forced them to stop.

Frankly, Ken, there is no excuse for your putting that in this discussion. You are deliberately, and absolutely and egregiously incorrectly trying to associate atheism with the sick mind of a serial killer. I tell you this: you would be disgusted at me if I did the same with notorious Christian villains in an effort to sully you because you share their religion.

I think you should do the honourable thing and retract that statement. ​
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2 Peter 2:2
 
Deeje

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.. . . .

I would ask you not to forget what Torquemada and the Catholic Church did during the Inquisition, or the Protestant Henry VIII, or the Catholic Mary I, or all the various protagonists of the Reformation and Counter Reformation, all of whom, I am led to believe were "true believers."

I would ask why you don't mention the destruction of the Huguenots by the Catholic French state (Louis XIV).
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You do understand that genuine Christians could never have done the things you have mentioned here. Christ himself said to expect fake Christians inspired by the devil to do things that would make God look bad as @Hockeycowboy has said. Roman Catholicism was just the right vehicle. Protestantism wasn't much better. Not as much bloodshed but right up there.

The very thing that makes genuine Christianity "genuine" is the fact that Christ instructed his disciples to love their enemies (Matthew 5:43-45).....he never sanctioned killing any of them, though he did say that Christians would lay down their own lives on behalf of others. That means we would take a bullet for someone but never fore one.

Evangelicalhumanist said:
So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:
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Most of the things on that list are connected to the fakes....the rest is misinterpreted or misunderstood. Jesus and his Father hate hypocrisy as much as you do. But God has rules and we need to abide by them if we are to gain the promised reward he is offering for not selling out to the devil's deceptions. God gives us all options and allows us to choose our own destiny, giving us the heads up on all of it. I think that is pretty fair.

If you think its all rubbish then you are entitled to your belief. What would you like God to do about that? He is going to catch us all in the act of being ourselves. We are what he sees.....not how we see ourselves....nothing else matters IMO.
 
George-ananda

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

  • The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  • Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
  • People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
  • Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
  • Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
  • Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
  • Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
  • Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
  • Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
  • The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  • Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  • Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)
That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.
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That list just sounds like 'Why NOT conservative fundamentalist Religion'.

Us spiritual believers can still agree with the criticisms of much conservative fundamentalist religion but still love our chosen spiritual path.
 
lewisnotmiller

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
AT-AT said:
There are crazies on every side. However, in any case, the OP presented a great argument.
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Not if you define you side as calm and rationale optimists with a generally pleasant disposition. That's my side.
Screw this theist vs atheist nonsense.
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some (perhaps many, who knows how long I'll continue) some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion, and give others the chance to say why they do not.

Please feel free to tell me when you think I'm dead wrong, but ONLY if you are prepared to back up your criticism with a fact-based argument.

So, here are a few of my arguments, just to get things going:

  • The discouragement of rational, critical thought. Christianity in particular discourages critical thinking. In essence, it makes people less intelligent by telling them that faith is just as good, or better, than arriving at a conclusion through deductive reasoning and evidence
  • Nearly all religions treat homosexuality, a natural variation in orientation, as sinful and anathema, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide … I can give evidence of all of these
  • People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality, and also dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help. Other deaths have been caused by people being choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
  • Genital mutilation of babies or (worse) youths (male and female) for nothing but religious reasons
  • Genuine psychological conditions not being properly treated, because they're blamed on "demons," resulting in avoidance of proper medical care
  • Otherwise good people disowning their own families, or disfellowshipping or shunning members of their own communities over differences in religious opinion.
  • Insistence on “Abstinence-only” sex education, which cause far more STDs and unwed pregnancies than necessary...and often resulting in soul-destroying shot-gun marriages
  • Forcing women into life-threatening abortions by refusing to allow therapeutic abortions when they are genuinely appropriate, and the best solution in the circumstances
  • Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings
  • The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, e.g. Bamiyan Buddha's
  • Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion
  • Natural disasters and other tragedies being used to claim God is displeased with something or other, thus encouraging people to seek out that "something or other" and whack it (see Pat Robertson on Hurricane Katrina)
That will do to be going on with. I've lots and lots more, but I'll bet others can contribute to the list.
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Religion I believe, without science and reason degenerates into superstition but it’s teachings of virtues things like love, compassion, goodwill, helping the poor and so on can be invaluable to society.

When religion, shorn of its superstitions, traditions, and unintelligent dogmas, shows its conformity with science, then will there be a great unifying, cleansing force in the world which will sweep before it all wars, disagreements, discords and struggles—and then will mankind be united in the power of the Love of God. (Baha’i Writings)
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
KenS said:
It reminds me of another atheist, serial killerJeffrey Dahmer sentenced to 900 years in prison, who said “if a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?”.
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How about: to avoid getting sentenced to 900 years in prison?
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
KenS said:
No greater than mine. I presented a great argument on why not atheism (admitting that there are crazies on both sides)
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The difference is, off course, that you are "arguments" dealt with crazy individuals who had other unmentioned dogma's they were adhereing to.

While the OP's argument is dealing with the religions themselves, not with any particular individuals.
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Since the question "why religion" has been asked, I think it not inappropriate to begin a thread of my own, suggesting some of the reasons that I sincerely do not like religion
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All good points IMO

I prefer "spirituality" instead of "religion" ... because "spirituality" is "my personal quest" and "religion" is "group quest (with less focus on quest)"
 
Lionel Refson

Lionel Refson

Member
Theism 1 Atheism 0
or rather
Theism=1 Atheism =0
or rather
(Theism) 1+(Atheism) 0 /2 = 0.5

Sorry just doodling while thinking of the usual theism versus atheism debate. A proper mathematical formula for the aforesaid debate might be interesting.
 
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