Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
If you believe in a “father in heaven” for God, then my question (poll) is this:
Does he come to earth?
Does he come to earth?
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Poll
- Thread starter Jeremiah Ames
- Start date
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Imho, God, our genetic code's creator or Father from heaven as you have designated, probably has/have never made direct contact with any of us Earthling humans; the vast distances between star systems and enormous amount of energy would be too much for a massive biological being to travel near light speed over interstellar travel distances in order to get from God's planetary system of origin to our planet Earth. God, our genetic Code's Creator, might have sealed our genetic code inside a light powered sail that was then launched from around God's home planet to Earth.
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Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
So God is both biological AND massive? I suppose if he was massive enough he could simply reach from one star system to another. ??
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
As a multi cellular organism travels faster, its mass increases. Eventually, as matter approaches an appreciable fraction of the speed of light, most of the energy to propel the entity will be expended in increasing the mass of the traveler instead of accelerating its speed. This means that the speed of light is a universal speed limit which nothing of mass could even come anywhere near close to approaching. Because of the vastness of space between solar systems and the fact that a multi cellular organism can't accelerate to anywhere near the speed of light, I believe that interstellar space travel is impossible. Therefore, I believe humans never had any interaction with extraterrestrial beings nor will ever come into contact with any extraterrestrial beings.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
I hate getting off the subject, but I must disagree.
I saw on Star Trek, that people can travel faster than light.
It’s called Warp speed.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Warp speed, which requires negative energy density and exotic matter is highly theoretical.
Alcubierre drive - Wikipedia
No. It is not possible for the earth to contain him according to the Bible.
At 1 Kings 8:27 Solomon wrote...
27 “But will God really dwell on the earth? Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens, cannot contain you; how much less, then, this house that I have built!"
Why would he need to? He sees all and knows whatever he chooses to know about everything. He has servants to carry out his will, all of whom are equipped with the power that he grants to them, whether in physical form or spiritual.
Jesus called his Father "my God" even after his return to heaven.
He taught us to pray to the Father who was in heaven. So why would we have difficulty identifying with God as a "father figure"?
I like that mental image.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Ok, so then what about Psalm 27:8?
David seeks the Lord’s face, which equates to his presence.
Also Matthew 7:7?
Ask, seek, knock? Are we to find nothingness when the door is opened?
And Revelation 3:20? The Lord wants to come in and dine with us.
So how is it possible to think God cannot come to earth?
Psalm 27 is a song of David.....read the whole Psalm...
“Hope in Jehovah; be courageous and let your heart be strong. Yes, hope in Jehovah.” (Psalm 27:14) Psalm 27 shows that David relied on Jehovah as “the stronghold” of his life. (Verse 1) Having seen how God dealt with David’s adversaries in the past gave him courage. (Verses 2, 3) Appreciation for Jehovah’s center of worship was another factor. (Verse 4) Trusting in Jehovah’s help, protection, and deliverance also built up David’s courage. (Verses 5-10) Helpful, too, was continued instruction in the principles of Jehovah’s righteous way. (Verse 11) Confident prayer for deliverance from his adversaries, coupled with faith and hope, helped David to be courageous. (Verses 12-14) We can build up our courage in similar ways, thus showing that we really “hope in Jehovah.”
Be of Good Courage! — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
Verse 8..."Speaking for you, my heart has said: “Seek to find my face.” Your face, O Jehovah, I will seek to find."
Psalm 63:1..."
"O God, you are my God, I keep looking for you.
I do thirst for you.
I am faint with longing for you In a dry and parched land, where there is no water."
(see also Psalm 69:17; Psalm 143:7)
David sought God's favor, which can only be granted through the operation of his spirit. No human has ever seen God face to face. (John 1:18) They could not survive the experience.
Exodus 33:18-20...
"Then he [Moses] said: “Please show me your glory.” 19 But he said: “I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will declare before you the name of Jehovah; and I will favor the one whom I favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I show mercy.” 20 But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
Jesus was stressing our need not to give up when petitioning God for answers to our prayers. We have to have tenacity and patience because God will answer our requests according to his own will, not necessarily in accord with ours. From his perspective, he sees what we cannot. He knows what we 'need', but will not necessarily give us what we 'want' when we want it. (Matthew 7:21-23) 'Doing the will of the Father' is a prerequisite. There are things we can do that block approach to God. (Isaiah 1:15; 1 Peter 3:7)
The 'nothingness' of death is merely a hiatus from conscious life.....'resting in peace' is what happens when we die. A return to life is promised, so death is not permanent. If all our loved ones are in heaven looking down on us and seeing the sad and sorry state of the world and its impact on our lives....and they cannot do a thing to save us from an accident, illness, war or other tragedy....how could heaven ever be a happy place? How much better to be sleeping and unaware of anything that is happening here? (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10; Psalm 115:17) Time ceases to exist and when we open our eyes at the resurrection, it will be as if we just closed them. There will be no memory of the passing of time. We sleep.
In context....who is the "us"?
19 “‘All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent. 20 Look! I am standing at the door and knocking. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into his house and take the evening meal with him and he with me. 21 To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’”
To whom is Jesus speaking? He has just passed judgment on the seven congregations, symbolically representing the whole body of Christ's anointed ones who will rule with him in heaven. All of the first Christians were anointed for life in heaven, receiving a "heavenly calling", (Hebrews 3:1) but were still needing correction whilst still in their sinful flesh. His opening words reveal that not all are deserving of his reproof, nor would they accept it. Only those who had "conquered" satan's world by means of their faith. Yet not all Christians are going to heaven. Those who go to heaven are specially chosen by God for that role (Revelation 20:6)....the majority of Christ's followers will stay right here on earth where God created them to live in the first place. They will be ruled by those who go to heaven. This is so hard for people who have been indoctrinated with Christendom's false expectations of everyone going to heaven. It was never in God's original purpose for humans to ever go to heaven......death was not supposed to happen. It was God's intention for humans to live on earth forever, untouched by sin or evil. (Isaiah 55:11) God never changed his plans.....he has just taken a detour to counteract the abuse of free will that was committed by our first parents. Undoing that damage has taken time....but God is timeless, so it all happens in his timeframe...not ours. Humans are the hostages in this situation.
We can't take verses out of context to prove what we want to believe. We have to look at the whole of scripture teaches.The Bible is one story from Genesis to Revelation.
When God appeared in vision to his prophets in ancient times, he was always attended by his angelic servants, often pictured as surrounding God's throne, serving the Sovereign Lord of his creation that he is. To suggest that he even needs to reduce himself down to human flesh is rather insulting IMV. He has servants to do whatever is needed to bring about his will and purpose.
By convincing their flocks that Jesus is God, Christendom has given them a false impression about God's supreme position in his heavenly arrangement. (Psalm 83:18 KJV) Jesus is the son of God, second only to his Father.....and Jehovah remains the God of Jesus even after his return to heaven, (Revelation 3:12) proving that he is not God and never was. Revelation 3:14 calls Jesus "the beginning of the creation by God". He is "only-begotten" in the sense that he is the first and only direct creation of his Father. All other creation was undertaken through the agency of the son. (Colossians 1:15-17)
Scripture explains scripture if you know what it teaches.....the big picture tells you all you need to know.
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
He came to earth to give the ten commandments to His people. He descended upon Mount Sinai.
arthra
Baha'i
Recall in Luke 23:46 the final words of Jesus on the cross:
"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
Personally I believe Jesus used the term "Father" because it made the presence of God more personal rather than stressing the remoteness so God is nearer to us like a father. I believe God manifests Himself through His Prophets and Messengers. Here are some excerpts from the Baha'i Writings:
"In reality all are members of one human family -- children of one Heavenly Father."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 25)
"The world of existence is an emanation of the merciful attribute of God. God has shone forth upon the phenomena of being through His effulgence of mercy and He is clement and kind to all His creation. Therefore the world of humanity must ever be the recipient of bounties from the eternal Lord; even as His Holiness Christ has declared, "Be ye perfect even as your Father which is in heaven." For His bounties like the light and heat of the sun in the material heavens descend alike upon all mankind. Consequently man must learn the lesson of kindness and beneficence from God Himself. Just as God is kind to all humanity, man also must be kind to his fellow creatures. If his attitude is just and loving toward his fellow men, toward all creation, then indeed is he worthy of being pronounced the image and likeness of God."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 79)