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Who will get to heaven?

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Maybe I can't read very good but I cannot find where the verses you mention say anything about anyone being in heaven. If I am wrong please quote the verse that says this.
First of all, we find Jesus' words at John 14:19 that the world would see Jesus No more.
That is because God resurrected Jesus to heaven - Hebrews 9:24.
God sent His pre-human heavenly Son (Jesus) to Earth from the Heavens.
Thus, Jesus returned back to where he came: the Heavens.
New Jerusalem is Not old earthly Jerusalem but now 'Jerusalem above' as per Galatians 4:26.
Jesus is in New heavenly Jerusalem as per Revelation 3:12 with heavenly thrones - Revelation 3:21.
We do Not see the invisible realm of existence, but we can see the effects.
Jesus' 1,000 year reign over Earth is directed from the heavens - Revelation 20:1-7.
The symbolic destructive ' fire' of Revelation 20:9 comes down from Heaven.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Where does this "eternity" take place? Heaven? Or somewhere else?
I find eternity takes place in both Heaven and on Earth.
People like those of Luke 22:28-30 will spend eternity in Heaven - Revelation 20:6
The majority of mankind (John 3:13) can gain eternity on Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5
This is because ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth beginning at the coming time of 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
No one (on Earth) will say, " I am sick....." as per Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 25:8
People gaining eternity (everlasting life) on Earth will be healthy as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I have some personal opinions for why the Lord did this.
When Cain murdered Abel, he denied his brother of any future progeny, which is one of the main reasons for why we enter into mortality.
The Lord allowed Cain to live and to have children so that the possibility would one day arise when some of Cain's descendants would be raised unto Abel.




Just like how in the Law of Moses when a man dies without having children, his brother would then marry his deceased brother's wife and have children by her that would be dedicated to the deceased brother.

I don't know exactly when or how this may be done, but it is my opinion that this was the reason for why Cain was spared.

I do too. I believe there is a lot more that was either lost to time or never recorded.

These are huge topics that I could never do proper justice.

I'm gonna share a link to a definition of faith and accompanying scripture references.

Hopefully this will help us narrow down the discussion. Get more specific and detailed questions and answers.

Faith in Jesus Christ

Salvation is basically being saved from the effects of both sin (spiritual death) and physical death brought on by the Fall of Man.

The Lord Jesus Christ, through His suffering, has already redeemed all people from the Fall, meaning that no one is blamed for it.

We all come into this world innocent and sinless although we still suffer the effects of the Fall such as temptation to sin, pain and eventual physical death.

Since the Lord Jesus Christ suffered death and conquered it through His Resurrection, all of Mankind will one day receive this free gift of Resurrection, which is salvation from physical death.

Our spirits will be reunited with our physical bodies, only this time our bodies will be perfect. No more pain, disease, weakness or death.

Being saved from sin, also called spiritual death (because being separated from God is death to our spirits) requires action on the part of the individual.

We can receive forgiveness of sin in this life by keeping God's commandments, which can cause us to live with greater feelings of peace, love and compassion thus receiving certain benefits of salvation in mortality.

In all honesty everyone in the world, regardless of any factor, is promised salvation eventually.

The word "eventually" is what I want to focus on.

The Lord Jesus Christ has suffered for the sins of all the world. Not just the educated. Not just the spiritual. For all the world.

However, when a person will receive the benefits of that salvation depends on the individual.

Those in mortality who live righteously, rely on the Lord through faith, repent of their sins and enter into the sacred covenant of baptism can enjoy many benefits of salvation now in mortality.

They cannot be saved from physical death in this life, but they can overcome many sins and receive the blessings that come from that.

No one can overcome sin or be forgiven of sin without having a knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has down for us.

Even if you procrastinate your repentance until you enter the spirit world after this life, you must learn about the Lord Jesus Christ in order to receive salvation from sin.

It is always better to repent of your sins ASAP because you can gain more wisdom and experience. The more you have when you depart this life the better off you will be in the next.

I understand how that can be confusing and it comes from a common misunderstanding.

The "spirit world" is still bound by time. It does not exist in eternity. We do not enter eternity immediately upon death.

The spirit world is here upon the Earth and all the spirits of Mankind will go there immediately upon leaving their physical bodies.

We wait in the spirit world until the time of our Resurrection. Then after we are resurrected we receive our Final Judgmnt and then we enter into eternity.

It is possible to continue to learn and grow in the spirit world. The more you learn and grow in mortality, the greater the learning and growing will be in the spirit world. Exponentially so.
This is why I stress the importance of coming to the Lord Jesus Christ ASAP so you can learn and grow as He would want you to.
Are you kidding? I'm having a blast!

Only if Abel was a minor child. They could have been 'adult brothers' at the time Cain murdered Abel.
They could have even been around a hundred years old at that time.
Just because there is No mention of Abel being married does Not mean he wasn't.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I find eternity takes place in both Heaven and on Earth.
People like those of Luke 22:28-30 will spend eternity in Heaven - Revelation 20:6
The majority of mankind (John 3:13) can gain eternity on Earth - Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5
This is because ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth beginning at the coming time of 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
No one (on Earth) will say, " I am sick....." as per Isaiah 33:24; Isaiah 25:8
People gaining eternity (everlasting life) on Earth will be healthy as described at Isaiah 35th chapter.
I guess I am just dumb or stupid. I asked for verses that say people will go to heaven. I cannot find the word heaven in Luke 22:28-30. Rev. 3:12 says the new Jerusalem will come down from heaven. Nothing about anyone going to heaven. Please put your superior brain power to use and help poor dumb me to understand. Where does any verse say anyone will go to heaven. Actually there is a verse that says no one has gone to heaven. Whay could that mean?
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Where does this "eternity" take place? Heaven? Or somewhere else?
I was ready to give a quick answer, then thought better of it.
I now think the answer is much more complex than saying eternity is in heaven. Or eternity is in some other place.
I will give a very simple response to the best of my ability.
Eternity is NOT in a place. It’s another level of consciousness perhaps?
Heaven is not a place either. It’s a state of mind.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
I guess I am just dumb or stupid. I asked for verses that say people will go to heaven. I cannot find the word heaven in Luke 22:28-30. Rev. 3:12 says the new Jerusalem will come down from heaven. Nothing about anyone going to heaven. Please put your superior brain power to use and help poor dumb me to understand. Where does any verse say anyone will go to heaven. Actually there is a verse that says no one has gone to heaven. Whay could that mean?

Sorry, I missed this post of yours before making my previous post.
I have to agree with you here. People cannot “go to heaven”, such as they go to Walmart.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
I’m very glad that you’re having a blast.
I completely understand what you mean.
These types of discussions are so rewarding. Learning and understanding spiritual concepts has been a great joy to me as well.
Thank you for all of your great responses.
I’m going to hit your link and read that next, but in the meantime, a comment of yours raised another question. I can understand your thoughts about the spirit world, yet I get some confusion here. I believe we all have the desire to get beyond the spiritual world into eternity. And it is in eternity that we can grow exponentially so, for eternity. Your statement made it seem like you don’t think there is learning and growing in eternity.
Is that the case?
Of course we continue to learn and grow in eternity!

Most, if not all, of my comments so far have been about salvation which is a process that occurs within time.

Once the faithful enter into eternity they will continue to learn and grow until they can eventually become like God Himself.

This happens through the process of exaltation, also known as deification or theosis.

I cannot even fathom what we will begin to learn at that point!

Of course, one would need to receive salvation first before becoming exalted, so that is why my focus has been on the necessity for salvation.

I wouldn't want to put my cart before the horse.

However, I need to stress, that all of this is done by and through the Lord Jesus Christ.

If it were not for Him and what He has done for us, we would all be miserable forever, never able to learn or grow.
 

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Of course we continue to learn and grow in eternity!

Most, if not all, of my comments so far have been about salvation which is a process that occurs within time.

Once the faithful enter into eternity they will continue to learn and grow until they can eventually become like God Himself.

This happens through the process of exaltation, also known as deification or theosis.

I cannot even fathom what we will begin to learn at that point!

Of course, one would need to receive salvation first before becoming exalted, so that is why my focus has been on the necessity for salvation.

I wouldn't want to put my cart before the horse.

However, I need to stress, that all of this is done by and through the Lord Jesus Christ.

If it were not for Him and what He has done for us, we would all be miserable forever, never able to learn or grow.

Thanks for your fresh comment.
I agree again with the above.

I also read the article regarding faith from your link.
It is the best explanation of faith I have ever seen.
I wonder how many people actually understand what it means?

I haven’t come across too many in real life.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I missed this post of yours before making my previous post.
I have to agree with you here. People cannot “go to heaven”, such as they go to Walmart.
And yet probably 99% of Christians hope to go to heaven after they die. Wonder where this comes from?
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I was ready to give a quick answer, then thought better of it.
I now think the answer is much more complex than saying eternity is in heaven. Or eternity is in some other place.
I will give a very simple response to the best of my ability.
Eternity is NOT in a place. It’s another level of consciousness perhaps?
Heaven is not a place either. It’s a state of mind.
If heaven is not a place then where is God? In a state of mind?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
And yet probably 99% of Christians hope to go to heaven after they die. Wonder where this comes from?

How true. Where do we get the impression that earth is just a training ground for heaven? God was never going to take humans to heaven because the situation in Eden never mentioned death except as a penalty for disobedience. If humans had never sinned, they never would have died. Living forever on this earth was the original plan.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Thanks for your fresh comment.
I agree again with the above.

I also read the article regarding faith from your link.
It is the best explanation of faith I have ever seen.
I wonder how many people actually understand what it means?

I haven’t come across too many in real life.
Awesome.

I'm here if you have any other comments or questions.

Can't wait. :)
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Only if Abel was a minor child. They could have been 'adult brothers' at the time Cain murdered Abel.
They could have even been around a hundred years old at that time.
Just because there is No mention of Abel being married does Not mean he wasn't.
Fair enough.

However, the Genesis account records that the people of that time had very long lifespans. Almost an entire millennia.

One hundred years of age to them would be like 7-8 years of age when compared to our lifespans.

An one hundred year old Abel may still have been considered a minor child.

Either way, the record does not mention Abel being married or having children, while it does mention Cain being both married and having children.

I am inclined to believe that if Abel had a wife and children the record would have made mention of it.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Hi and thanks for your very thoughtful response. I am guessing you are responding to my comment. Well, I must say that I, again, have nothing to disagree with above. I also prefer the KJV.
And everything you say about Adam and Eve, I see nothing to disagree with. In my response, I spoke more about Cain. But to me, the same concept carries to Cain, as well. We are hardly born knowing all good and all evil. Just because the tree of knowledge gives us the ability to know evil, does not mean we actually do. And it would be impossible to know evil, unless we know good. And knowing good is a choice, which few seek. The Lord said that few would find it.
If a person only knows evil, they cannot know that it IS evil. They will actually think it is good. I could cite the people running the US government as exhibit A. Those who are speaking and doing evil do not know what they are doing. All the horrible self centered politicians have no grasp that they are evil. They believe they are doing good. But then the Lord said “forgive them for they know not what they do”. That sentence shows that the tree of knowledge did not grant the ability for all to understand that they are evil. Only a “few” can actually know that they are evil. The rest, the “many”, know not what they do.

Sorry, I’m slow to respond.
Well put, although I still believe that Cain had no excuse.

Being raised by Adam and Eve and being addressed by God directly...

He made his choice with perfect knowledge.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Where does this "eternity" take place? Heaven? Or somewhere else?
That depends on what you mean by "Heaven".

When we die we enter the "spirit world" that has at least three different conditions of existence; Paradise, Prison and Hell.

Paradise directly correlates with the mainstream idea of "Heaven", although it is not a final resting place.

These conditions of existence are temporary and all will eventually leave them after they are Resurrected.

After our Resurrection we will receive our Final Judgment.

That Judgment will determine where in God's Kingdom we will dwell and what responsibilities we will have.

It is after our Resurrection and Judgment that we enter into eternity.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
It beats me how anyone can believe the Adam and Eve story to be anymore than a myth created by the human imagination.
 
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