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Angels and demons.

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
actually it does
implicitly and explicitly

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
The dragon is a future king. He is called the devil and satan because he is evil. A murderer and liar.

Luke 11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebul.

Beelzebul was the god of Ekron and the idols of the heathen were called devils (KJV). The scribes and Pharisees accused Jesus' miracles of healing, which were done by the Spirit, as being done by diabolical agency.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I find the implication is there by referring to the 'fallen angels' as sons of God at Genesis 6:2; Genesis 6:4
Thus, those fallen angels are: demons.
Satan is the dragon of Revelation 12:7-9. The dragon (aka Satan) fought and his angels ( aka demons)
The sons of God who sinned (mortal men) by intermarrying with those out of the way were destroyed by the flood. They are said to be held in chains of darkness (the grave of the abyss) until they will be raised to judgment.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
You're showing ignorance here. The word demon means "spirit". Angels are good spirits, why the Bible nentions people possessed by evil spirits.
The word demon (devils KJV) were idols in the O.T. Not "spirits".
When the people worshiped idols or false gods they are said to worship devils or demons.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God's angels in heaven are immortal and therefore never die. the wages of sin is death.
I do wonder where you got the idea that angels in heaven are immortal____________
If they were immortal I would think the Bible would teach that.
I find Satan ( along with his demonic angels ) are Not immortal.
According to Hebrews 2:14 B Jesus will destroy Satan.
Sinner Satan will end up in that symbolic ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8.
True, angels do Not die as we do, but they are mortal because demonic angels will be destroyed.
All the wicked will be destroyed forever as per Psalms 92:7. Satan and his demons are wicked.
However, people who are called to heaven, resurrected to heaven, are gifted with immortality as per Revelation 20:6.
'second death' has No power over them, but 'second death' does have power over sinning angels.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The word demon (devils KJV) were idols in the O.T. Not "spirits". When the people worshiped idols or false gods they are said to worship devils or demons.

Idol worship is worship of false gods.
Satan set himself up to be ' god ' over humans.
By telling Eve she would Not die apparently made Eve think she could be her own goddess.
By Adam breaking God's law then Adam set up human law as superior to God's Law.
Thus, Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule.
What ever a person puts first in his life is a form of worship, false worship, idol worship.
Some people look in their mirror and see their god.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Does anyone actually say that demons are angels? I've never heard of that, and most people seem to understand the difference. Even I can tell the difference. Demons are red, with pitchforks, tail, horns - sometimes with a beard and an evil grin. Angels are in some kind of white gown, with wings and a halo.

Sometimes, angels will play a harp, while demons play electric guitars. (They might play a fiddle on occasion, but not as good as Charlie Daniels.)

The point is, there's a clear difference here, and I don't think anyone would get them confused.
Demons are just fallen angels, according to mainstream Christian belief. They're still angels, just "naughty" ones.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The sons of God who sinned (mortal men) by intermarrying with those out of the way were destroyed by the flood. They are said to be held in chains of darkness (the grave of the abyss) until they will be raised to judgment.
Even Satan will be released from that abyss and have an adverse judgement.- Revelation 20:2-3
That to me includes Satan the dragon and his angels as per Revelation 12:7-9.
Plus, at the soon coming ' time of separation' on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 those whom Jesus judges adversely are the figurative ' haughty ' goat'-like ones who will also be destroyed - Psalms 92:7
Only those counted as upright receive a favorable judgement - Proverbs 2:21-22.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
God's angels in heaven are immortal and therefore never die. the wages of sin is death.
If heavenly angels are immortal then they can Not sin any more.
Sinner Satan is a sinner, thus the wages of Satan's sin is: death.
Not dying as we die but sinner Satan will be destroyed ending up in ' second death ' (destruction )- Revelation 21:8
Thus, heavenly angels are mortal having everlasting life in the heavens if they are faithful.
Like mortal Adam who was offered everlasting life as long as he was faithful.
Angels are offered everlasting life in Heaven.
Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth.
Neither are death proof (immortal) but both can choose to be faithful or not.
Jesus promised some people (like those of Luke 22:28-30) a heavenly resurrection - Revelation 20:6
They are part of a first or earlier resurrection before most of those who will be resurrected.
The majority of people can be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11.
So, most of the dead will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to live everlasting life on Earth.
Everlasting life on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.- Genesis 1:28.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Well Satan is the great deciever. Which begs the question whose his greatest victim?
Very interesting question ^ above ^.
Eve was deceived - 1 Timothy 2:14 - but Adam was Not deceived.
That leads me to think then that Adam was his greatest victim.(?)
Adam deliberately choose to listen to Eve.
In effect Adam committed suicide by choosing to break God's Law.
Adam was a good as already dead on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Very interesting question ^ above ^.
Eve was deceived - 1 Timothy 2:14 - but Adam was Not deceived.
That leads me to think then that Adam was his greatest victim.(?)
Adam deliberately choose to listen to Eve.
In effect Adam committed suicide by choosing to break God's Law.
Adam was a good as already dead on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.
Himself. Which btw could also say herself equally.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Demon is just a word. It could be used different ways and is used in different ways.

What's your point?
The point? It is claimed by the sectarian churches that demons are fallen angels. That is false, because demons are NEVER said to be angels, fallen or otherwise.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
If heavenly angels are immortal then they can Not sin any more.
Sinner Satan is a sinner, thus the wages of Satan's sin is: death.
Not dying as we die but sinner Satan will be destroyed ending up in ' second death ' (destruction )- Revelation 21:8
Thus, heavenly angels are mortal having everlasting life in the heavens if they are faithful.
Like mortal Adam who was offered everlasting life as long as he was faithful.
Angels are offered everlasting life in Heaven.
Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth.
Neither are death proof (immortal) but both can choose to be faithful or not.
Jesus promised some people (like those of Luke 22:28-30) a heavenly resurrection - Revelation 20:6
They are part of a first or earlier resurrection before most of those who will be resurrected.
The majority of people can be part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth - Psalms 37:9-11.
So, most of the dead will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection to live everlasting life on Earth.
Everlasting life on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.- Genesis 1:28.
"In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God." Luke 20:36

In the resurrection, the saints are as the angels, they never die again. Therefore, any angel having said to have sinned refers to mortal man, as the wages of sin is death.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Very interesting question ^ above ^.
Eve was deceived - 1 Timothy 2:14 - but Adam was Not deceived.
That leads me to think then that Adam was his greatest victim.(?)
Adam deliberately choose to listen to Eve.
In effect Adam committed suicide by choosing to break God's Law.
Adam was a good as already dead on the day he ate the forbidden fruit.
The fact that Adam sinned shows that his nature, his flesh, was sinful.
Again, the idea of the churches is that Adam did not have a sinful nature. If he did not have a sinful nature, as God's angels, then he could not have sinned. It would have been his only desire to do the will of God, as God's angels only desire is to obey the commands of God.
The Jewish idea of the serpent in the garden is that it represents man's evil inclination. They call it Yetzar hara.
In Scripture it is called the lust of the flesh.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Even Satan will be released from that abyss and have an adverse judgement.- Revelation 20:2-3
That to me includes Satan the dragon and his angels as per Revelation 12:7-9.
Plus, at the soon coming ' time of separation' on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40 those whom Jesus judges adversely are the figurative ' haughty ' goat'-like ones who will also be destroyed - Psalms 92:7
Only those counted as upright receive a favorable judgement - Proverbs 2:21-22.
The angels who sinned, have been, and still are, "chained" in the grave of the abyss. They were swallowed up by the flood waters. Therefore, those angels are NOT God's immortal angels, but were mortal men, called the sons of God who sinned. They are held captive by the prison house of the grave until judgment when they will be raised to die a second death.
Jesus' prophecy concerns things to come. The Satan in his prophecy is a man who Paul calls "the man of sin". He must appear first before Jesus' second coming. He will be a man called "the red dragon" king, who embodies all the evil of the fleshly mind and body. He will claim to be God and because of his great power over the people and nations, he will demand worship of himself and the beast (Gog) and the image they erect in the future temple of God, which also must come before Jesus.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Idol worship is worship of false gods.
Satan set himself up to be ' god ' over humans.
By telling Eve she would Not die apparently made Eve think she could be her own goddess.
By Adam breaking God's law then Adam set up human law as superior to God's Law.
Thus, Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule.
What ever a person puts first in his life is a form of worship, false worship, idol worship.
Some people look in their mirror and see their god.
The lust of the flesh is called the God of this world because men worship their evil desires, as Adam did, rather then obey God. The serpent in the garden represents man's evil inclination of his own flesh. When Adam sinned he brought death into the world, therefore, all that comes from Adam's sin are said to be the works of the Devil and Satan. All forms of mental and physical maladies, of every kind, are what leads to death, and the result of Adam's sin. They are personified in Scripture as "demons". And when those demons are cast out of a person, the person is healed of whatever afflicted them.
The Scripture tells us that when Jesus died he destroyed the Devil. But yet the devil still exists. That's because God condemned the sinful flesh of Jesus (man) on the cross. The mortal and sinful flesh was only condemned in the mortal flesh of Jesus and we are yet in the flesh. So the devil still exists in the flesh of all man until those in Christ will be raised immortal.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
"In fact, they can no longer die, because they are like the angels. And since they are sons of the resurrection, they are sons of God." Luke 20:36
In the resurrection, the saints are as the angels, they never die again. Therefore, any angel having said to have sinned refers to mortal man, as the wages of sin is death.

I find the ' they ' of Luke 20:36 are like those of Luke 22:28-30.
These are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20:6.
'Second Death' has No power over them, but it could over unfaithful angels like sinner Satan.
Sinner Satan ends up in ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8
The resurrected-to-heaven people are Not classed as angels, but as saints or holy ones who gain everlasting life in Heaven.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
The angels who sinned, have been, and still are, "chained" in the grave of the abyss. They were swallowed up by the flood waters. Therefore, those angels are NOT God's immortal angels, but were mortal men, called the sons of God who sinned. They are held captive by the prison house of the grave until judgment when they will be raised to die a second death.
Jesus' prophecy concerns things to come. The Satan in his prophecy is a man who Paul calls "the man of sin". He must appear first before Jesus' second coming. He will be a man called "the red dragon" king, who embodies all the evil of the fleshly mind and body. He will claim to be God and because of his great power over the people and nations, he will demand worship of himself and the beast (Gog) and the image they erect in the future temple of God, which also must come before Jesus.

The composite ' man of sin ' the ' son of perdition ' are the composite false clergy classes. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8
They seat themselves in the ' temple' (houses of worship) as if they are God when they are really anti-God.
We are nearing the 'final signal', so to speak, of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when the 'powers that be ' will be saying, " Peace and Security.." as the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
Gog of Magog is simply the nations, the coalition of nations against Christ and God's kingdom government of Daniel 2:44.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I find the ' they ' of Luke 20:36 are like those of Luke 22:28-30.
These are the ones who have that first or earlier resurrection of Revelation 20:6.
'Second Death' has No power over them, but it could over unfaithful angels like sinner Satan.
Sinner Satan ends up in ' second death ' of Revelation 21:8
The resurrected-to-heaven people are Not classed as angels, but as saints or holy ones who gain everlasting life in Heaven.
The point is, Satan could not have been an angel of God because they never die. If Satan is to die (the devil was already destroyed in the flesh of Christ) then he is not an an angel of God but a mortal man.
 
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