Would you leave your family's religion if...

Ancient Soul · May 31, 2019

shunyadragon said:
In one degree or another pretty much most religions are controlling in one way or another. The pressure of the sense of belonging and community is pretty much universal. The nature of the claim of salvation often to some degree exclusive to the belief system. These properties of belief systems represent the sum of pressure to belong and remain. All of the older traditional religions face this issue without exception.

True enough.

Although his statement/question clearly falls into the creepy controlling cult category:

"Would you have the guts to leave your family's religion if this means that all your family and friends in that religion are required to totally sever all contacts with you? Which considerations would you take before taking / not taking this step?"

As it's not just the religion one would leave behind, but one would be losing their entire family.

Most would find that a bit too much to give up and that's why cults use it to control their victims. (Although in my case it would be an incentive to leave any cult, they can keep my entire family. In fact it would be like planting an Internet virus into the cult that would destroy it from the inside, LOL.)

Shiranui117 · Jun 1, 2019

Sirona said:
Would you have the guts to leave your family's religion if this means that all your family and friends in that religion are required to totally sever all contacts with you? Which considerations would you take before taking / not taking this step?

Is this religion true? Do I care what is true? Would it be dishonest of me to stay in a religion I don't care about, don't believe in or even maybe disagree with?

shunyadragon · Jun 1, 2019

Shiranui117 said:
Is this religion true? Do I care what is true? Would it be dishonest of me to stay in a religion I don't care about, don't believe in or even maybe disagree with?

Good examples of questions everyone should ask, Actually for most people they do not address the questions even though they may ask. Many choose to remain in a religion or church even though they do not believe, because of the more pragmatic response to the desire of the sense of community and belonging, and of course peer pressure, which may include threat of death or great harm.

It is the rule that the thread holds the elephant.

Shantanu · Jun 1, 2019

shunyadragon said:
Good examples of questions everyone should ask, Actually for most people they do not address the questions even though they may ask. Many choose to remain in a religion or church even though they do not believe, because of the more pragmatic response to the desire of the sense of community and belonging, and of course peer pressure, which may include threat of death or great harm.

It is the rule that the thread holds the elephant.

It would seem that Bahais subscribe to the view that if one religion is true and since they believe in Baha'u'llah's religion, then all religions must be true: would that be a correct summary?

shunyadragon · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
It would seem that Bahais subscribe to the view that if one religion is true and since they believe in Baha'u'llah's religion, then all religions must be true: would that be a correct summary?

Actually, not the issue of the thread, but nonetheless it is pretty much universal that if someone believes in a religion they believe it is true like the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day on the 4th of July at noon.

There is also the view that the dominant view of ancient religions is that their belief systems or individuals is absolutely true for all time, and in opposition to other belief systems, and that is not the belief of the Baha'i Faith. The Baha'i Faith believes more in an evolving knowledge from the human perspective over time in human history as in science and spiritual teachings.

Shantanu · Jun 1, 2019

shunyadragon said:
Actually, not the issue of the thread, but nonetheless it is pretty much universal that if someone believes in a religion they believe it is true like the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day on the 4th of July at noon.

There is also the view that the dominant view of ancient religions is that their belief systems or individuals is absolutely true for all time, and in opposition to other belief systems, and that is not the belief of the Baha'i Faith.

So Bahais need to rationalise all other religions to bring them into conformity with what Baha'u'llah taught?

shunyadragon · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
So Baha'is need to rationalise all other religions to bring them into conformity with what Baha'u'llah taught?

No, this rationalization is a humanist perspective, and as the fallible nature of humans is a clear witness, people end up justifying many different and conflicting beliefs as absolutely true. Nonetheless some reason and rationalization is necessary to realize the problem and contradiction of the many diverse and contradictory claims of absolute truth that lack the honesty of an objective perspective, which is a paradox that reflect the reality of our greater existence that is more universal and uniform than individual human world views. It is even reasonable that they are all wrong, and no God(s) exist, because of these diverse conflicting views.

The evolving nature of human knowledge and belief more toward a universal perspective in history is actually taking place. It is factual that the conflicting views are not resolvable in reality.

Shantanu · Jun 1, 2019

shunyadragon said:
No, this rationalization is a humanist perspective, and as the fallible nature of humans is a clear witness, people end up justifying many different and conflicting beliefs as absolutely true. Nonetheless some reason and rationalization is necessary to realize the problem and contradiction of the many diverse and contradictory claims of absolute truth that lack the honesty of an objective perspective, which is a paradox that reflect the reality of our greater existence that is more universal and uniform than individual human world views. It is even reasonable that they are all wrong, and no God(s) exist, because of these diverse conflicting views.

The evolving nature of human knowledge and belief more toward a universal perspective in history is actually taking place. It is factual that the conflicting views are not resolvable in reality.

Does God take sides in human conflicts no matter how these arise, whether through beliefs or the perpetration of injustices?

Shad · Jun 1, 2019

Sirona said:
Would you have the guts to leave your family's religion if this means that all your family and friends in that religion are required to totally sever all contacts with you? Which considerations would you take before taking / not taking this step?

Yes. Although it would take some time to build up to that point. Toss in there could be circumstances which delay such an act. For example teenagers waiting until legal adulthood thus a shift from the reliance upon one's family.

shunyadragon · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
Does God take sides in human conflicts no matter how these arise, whether through beliefs or the perpetration of injustices?

No, but many justify their righteous wage of war as Divinely ordained.

God is not a chess player . . .
With the white pieces.
God is the sea . . .
and we are the fishes.

shunyadragon · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
I would challenge anyone to look at my evidence and not find that my righteous war to establish the truth was not Divinely ordained. The Consultant Psychiatrist of the UK State will get this opportunity on 28 June 2019, 11.30 am when she will assess me and my religion of satya-advaita wherein I have challenged the State that it is not a mental disorder but a religion that I follow.

Sounds like Dilusions of meglomania. You need to listen to the Consultant Psychiatrist of the UK State.

shunyadragon · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
It may sound like that to the those not initated in the specific art of truth-seeking and are consequently engrossed in their unshakeable beliefs unwilling to see the truth. They have standard responses in which they speak without bothering to look at the evidence that I am presenting. Google Shantanu Panigrahi's Blog to find out more.

I am going by your claims and your statements of extreme self importance:

"I would challenge anyone to look at my evidence and not find that my righteous war to establish the truth was not Divinely ordained. The Consultant Psychiatrist of the UK State will get this opportunity on 28 June 2019, 11.30 am when she will assess me and my religion of satya-advaita wherein I have challenged the State that it is not a mental disorder but a religion that I follow."

The above statement is not remotely in touch with the reality of being a fallible human like everyone else.

shunyadragon · Jun 3, 2019

Shantanu said:
I would challenge anyone to look at my evidence and not find that my righteous war to establish the truth was not Divinely ordained. The Consultant Psychiatrist of the UK State will get this opportunity on 28 June 2019, 11.30 am when she will assess me and my religion of satya-advaita wherein I have challenged the State that it is not a mental disorder but a religion that I follow.

'Nothing is more common than the desire to be remarkable.'

Oliver Wendell Holmes

Would you leave your family's religion if...

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