My current version of Hinduism

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

LuisDantas said:
Sorry then, because you are being bigoted towards me, and quite unfairly so at that.

This shoe that you are offering me does not fit. Simple as that.

Sorry. I shouldn’t have said “you.” I don’t know anything about you, the person who is reading and posting. What I said was about what I’ve seen of your RP in these forums. Your character in the RP displays open and shameless contempt for the character and capacities of most of the world’s people, and for any interests that they might have, contrary to his own, or that wouldn’t interest him.

Shantanu · Jun 1, 2019

Jim said:
In my current version of Hinduism, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah are avatars of Krishna, and Baha’u’llah Is the Kalki Avatar.

Is that it: all done now or will there be more avatars?

atanu · Jun 1, 2019

SalixIncendium said:
From the link:

"The Bahá'í Faith

Bahá'ís believe that the Bahá'í Faith does not come not to supplant Hinduism. Rather its aims are:

- to take Hinduism on to a further stage of its evolution;

- to resolve some of the differences that we have noted above;

- and above all to unite Hinduism.
..... Indeed we will see that the Bahá'í position resolves some of the disagreements in philosophy that exist between the various schools within Hinduism.

@adrian009; @Jim and other Bahá’í s.

I am an universalist Hindu. But, I think that the above premise (paper is hosted in Bahá’í library) is questionable and is reeking of superiority complex, which imo is anti-spiritual in essence. We saw two posts by @Muffled in similar vein on behalf of Christianity.

IMO, it is necessary that a honest and unambiguous view of Bahá’ís, in respect of their proselytisation goal/s for Hindus is given here.

I guess that clarification/s has/have already been given but those are now jumbled up. Will you mind to explain again, in a separate thread if so required?

Thanks.

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
Is that it: all done now or will there be more avatars?

I retracted the first part of that long ago. I don’t know anything about avatars in general. According to Bahá’u’lláh, the next person that He calls “Manifestation of God” will not appear any sooner than 844 years from now.

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

atanu said:
IMO, it is necessary that a honest and unambiguous view of Bahá’ís, in respect of their proselytisation goal/s for Hindus is given here.

I guess that clarification/s has/have already been given but those are now jumbled up. Will you mind to explain again, in a separate thread if so required?

All you will get is more of the controversy that you’ve already seen. I’ll tell you later how you might be able to answer that question for yourself, as well as it can be answered on the Internet.

Dawnofhope · Jun 1, 2019

atanu said:
@adrian009; @Jim and other Bahá’í s.

I am an universalist Hindu. But, I think that the above premise (paper is hosted in Bahá’í library) is questionable and is reeking of superiority complex, which imo is anti-spiritual in essence. We saw two posts by @Muffled in similar vein on behalf of Christianity.

IMO, it is necessary that a honest and unambiguous view of Bahá’ís, in respect of their proselytisation goal/s for Hindus is given here.

I guess that clarification/s has/have already been given but those are now jumbled up. Will you mind to explain again, in a separate thread if so required?

Thanks.

That is an excellent question to ask.

The statement quoted above has been made by an individual Baha'i in a book titled Hinduism and the Baha'i Faith written in 1990. It was the perspective of one Baha'i and carries no weight or authority.

Here's my understanding:

The Baha'i perspective on Hinduism differs significantly from Christianity.

1/ Baha'is regard Hinduism as having Divine origins. Most Christians don't.

2/ Baha'is regards both Krishna and Jesus as Manifestations of God. Christians see Jesus as being an incarnation of God and immeasurably superior to Krishna. Baha'i also regard our two of our Teachers, the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Manifestations of God and equal to Jesus and Krishna.It should also be recognised there are been many wonderful souls and teachers in addition to Krishna that have emerged from the Indian subcontinent.

In general:

3/ Baha'is should not see themselves as any better than anyone else. If anything they should be humble and modest and see others as greater.

4/ Baha'is should associate with all peoples of all faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship.

5/ If someone wants to learn about the Baha'i Faith, Baha'is should make the effort to teach that person. If someone doesn't want to learn about the Baha'i he should desist.

6/ The medium of religious forum should be seen an excellent opportunity to build friendships with peoples of other faiths and to learn. Preaching and Proselytizing are contrary to the forum rules.

That's just my opinion but I hope it helps.

Shantanu · Jun 1, 2019

Jim said:
I retracted the first part of that long ago. I don’t know anything about avatars in general. According to Bahá’u’lláh, the next person that He calls “Manifestation of God” will not appear any sooner than 844 years from now.

That is very disappointing news, as there is a lot of evil in the world today and we do not know how to tackle this source of injustice for the common man.

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

adrian009 said:
They are people like the rest of us who are entitled to their opinions. There are no apostates in the Baha'i Faith. None of the people mentioned in Momen's paper are Covenant-Breakers so Baha'is are free to associate with them in a spirit of love and fellowship as with anyone else.

Another aspect of the paper I am very uncomfortable with, is the author naming specific individuals. They are all high profile critics of the Baha'i Faith on the internet for certain, so I can see why he did it. I would have preferred he didn't name anyone specifically and discussed the principles of working with dissent and disaffection in a religious community.

Too bad the UHJ didn't censor it then. But lots of faiths have this sort of animosity with people who leave. Some folks deal with leaving better than others. Personally, I think it best just to go quietly.

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

Jim said:
I’m. not. trying. to. reconcile. any. belief. systems.

I’m. not. trying. to. find. common. ground. between. religions.

I’m opposed to trying to reconcile belief systems, and I’m opposed to trying to find common ground between religions. In other words, I’m opposed to trying to reconcile belief systems, and I’m opposed to trying to find common ground between religions. What I’m trying to say is that I’m opposed to trying to reconcile belief systems, and I’m opposed to trying to find common ground between religions. I’ll even go so far as to say that I’m opposed to trying to reconcile belief systems, and I’m opposed to trying to find common ground between religions. Also, in case I forgot to mention it, I’m opposed to trying to reconcile belief systems, and I’m opposed to trying to find common ground between religions.

I don’t think that the religions of today will ever be reconciled, and I don’t that there will ever be any common ground in them for all people, not even for all the people in any one of them. I’m opposed to trying to reconcile belief systems, and I’m opposed to trying to find common ground between religions.

Then why do you, a Baha'i, start a thread entitled, 'My version of Hinduism'? and then explain how Baha'ullah is part of Hinduism? If that isn't an attempt at syncreticism, then just what the heck is it? Actions speak louder than words.

Dawnofhope · Jun 1, 2019

Vinayaka said:
Too bad the UHJ didn't censor it then. But lots of faiths have this sort of animosity with people who leave. Some folks deal with leaving better than others. Personally, I think it best just to go quietly.

If the paper was reviewed at all, and I can't see it was, it would have been reviewed by a team under the guidance of a National Spiritual Assembly. I've never been on a Baha'i review team but I have assisted medical colleagues review journal articles. I would have suggested significant revision.

Shantanu · Jun 1, 2019

atanu said:
IMO, it is necessary that a honest and unambiguous view of Bahá’ís, in respect of their proselytisation goal/s for Hindus is given here.

Bahai's need to spell out what they consider to be the essence of Hinduism that Baha'u'llah may have spoken about because Hindus themselves argue amongst themselves on this issue, as I am sure you are aware. Krishna is seen as an avatar by Bahai's but did Krishna preach Dharma and if so what specifically constitutes dharma.

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

Aupmanyav said:
You reap what you sow.
I may add that you are being abusive here.
'openly and shamelessly contemptuous .. untouched by the wisdom'
All that, because I do not agree to your world view or belief?

The jump from a difference of opinion to hate is a world problem these days. Moreso in politics than in religion. In the old days, political parties would disagree, have a long amiable discussion, and then let the voters decide. Nowadays it's almost hate first. I see it in US politics, and now somewhat in Canada. So here's a question: what's it like in India? In general, if you disagree with Modi, (or Congress) is it still civil?

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

Vinayaka said:
Then why do you, a Baha'i, start a thread entitled, 'My version of Hinduism'? and then explain how Baha'ullah is part of Hinduism? If that isn't an attempt at syncreticism, then just what the heck is it? Actions speak louder than words.

You can think whatever you want to about me. Help yourself. Knock yourself out.

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

LuisDantas said:
Seriously? You purport to actually believe in that?

I've had that actually happen to me in real life. Talking with a colleague (fundamentalist Christian) I mentioned I didn't believe in Jesus, that I was a Hindu. "So you hate Christians then. I see." was her reply. Huge jump. I hate Brazilians, and you hate Canadians, I suppose.

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

Jim said:
“Untouched” is not the right word. What it looks like to me is that you’re not much interested in trying to learn from them.

Who is 'them' here?

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

adrian009 said:
If the paper was reviewed at all, and I can't see it was, it would have been reviewed by a team under the guidance of a National Spiritual Assembly. I've never been on a Baha'i review team but I have assisted medical colleagues review journal articles. I would have suggested significant revision.

Editing and revising is no small task, as I've also done it. Medicine also has its conflicting views, and field studies that seem to contradict each other. Good for you for being up to that task.

atanu · Jun 1, 2019

adrian009 said:
That is an excellent question to ask.

The statement quoted above has been made by an individual Baha'i in a book titled Hinduism and the Baha'i Faith written in 1990. It was the perspective of one Baha'i and carries no weight or authority.

Here's my understanding:

The Baha'i perspective on Hinduism differs significantly from Christianity.

1/ Baha'is regard Hinduism as having Divine origins. Most Christians don't.

2/ Baha'is regards both Krishna and Jesus as Manifestations of God. Christians see Jesus as being an incarnation of God and immeasurably superior to Krishna. Baha'i also regard our two of our Teachers, the Bab and Baha'u'llah as Manifestations of God and equal to Jesus and Krishna.It should also be recognised there are been many wonderful souls and teachers in addition to Krishna that have emerged from the Indian subcontinent.

In general:

3/ Baha'is should not seem themselves as any better than anyone else. If anything they should be humble and modest and see others as greater.

4/ Baha'i should associate with all peoples of all faiths in a spirit of love and fellowship.

5/ If someone wants to learn about the Baha'i Faith, Baha'is should make the effort to teach that person. If someone doesn't want to learn about the Baha'i he should desist.

6/ The medium of religious forum should be seen an excellent opportunity to build friendships with peoples of other faiths and to learn. Preaching and Proselytizing are contrary to the forum rules.

That's just my opinion but I hope it helps.

Thank you very much.

I will note that as per Vedanta followers, which include advaitins, vishistadvaitins, dvatins, smartha-s, and many sects of Vaisnava-s, Shri Krishna is not only Guru but is God itself.

In this, I will like to paraphrase Shri Ramana, who teaches, in line with advaita Vedanta, that God, Guru, and Self are one and same. In this light Buddha is also accorded Bhagavan status by many Hindus. To understand this unique stand of Vedanta you need to accept the Sruti saying: the knower of Brahman becomes Brahman.

This is logical and not faith. Brahman is non dual Self. So, one cannot know Brahman as another self. Knowing Brahman is being Brahman.

In my opinion, this teaching is absent (or is hidden and insignificant) in other religions.

Aupmanyav · Jun 1, 2019

Shantanu said:
Is that it: all done now or will there be more avatars?

There is no end to claims of being messengers in Abrahamic religions. Even during the life-time of Bahaullah, one was born in India - Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. He said he was the returning Jesus, the Mahdi. There are scores of others.

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

To whom it may concern: The title of this thread and the OP are misleading because I was feeling spiteful at the time. A better title might have been “Some thoughts about possible relationships between Baha’i and Hindu stories and scriptures.” My question at the time was what Shoghi Effendi might have meant by something that he said about the Gita. My curiosity about that was satisfied long ago, and the only reason I’m still posting in this thread is to respond to other issues that are being raised.

I would be interested in discussions with anyone who is working on their own character and conduct, and the way they live their lives, as part of their efforts to help reduce animosities and hostilities across religious divides, and counteract their adverse effects.

Aupmanyav · Jun 1, 2019

Vinayaka said:
In general, if you disagree with Modi, (or Congress) is it still civil?

Modi got some 350 million votes, Congress got 120 million votes. So, at present Modi voters are in a majority. The reaction will vary from one person to another, but yes, with some people it could be physical or even worse. We have some very rough areas.

My current version of Hinduism

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