What would be wrong with being wrong?

Astosolece · Jun 1, 2019

I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Spirit of Light · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Hi

As a Buddhist, I have no doubt in the teaching of the Buddha, but that said, I have no problem with the other religions either, I don't think there is only one correct answer, because the teachings of the different religions are made so every person can find something they believe in and can follow.
So that we should come to the conclusion that we might be wrong, that does not even cross my mind anymore because doubt of the teaching is no longer a part of me. (Buddhist teaching is right for me as a cultivator, but that does not mean it is right for everyone else)

Subduction Zone · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

I think that it is due to the ability of believers to see the insurmountable weaknesses in other religions, but to keep believing they have to keep themselves blind to the weaknesses in their own faith. Most have a variation on an all of nothing belief.

Subduction Zone · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

I think that it is due to the ability of believers to see the insurmountable weaknesses in other religions, but to keep believing they have to keep themselves blind to the weaknesses in their own faith. Most have a variation on an all of nothing belief.

Nimos · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

I think most people (none convinced) have asked them self what you are asking here. The problem is that its not something you can really do, people that believe in God, are absolute certain that God exist.

This is a short video from a debate, which I think is quite telling, if you listen to what Lawrence Krauss is saying:

Because the approach to these issues when using reason and science is that nothing is absolute truth and what science does, is telling us what is wrong. So a discussion between scientists is not one about what people think should be true or not, but whether they are false based on evidence. If you don't have such approach how can you agree on anything?

Some believe in the trinity and some don't?
They all use the bible to back up their claim, even though its not written in it whether one or the other is true, and at the same time we can't test for it. Its a discussion based on what people think ought to be true. And since all of them have a position of absolutely truths, there is no way for them to reach an agreement. Either the trinity is right and all those that don't believe that are wrong or its the other way around, and none of them can convince each other when there are no "hard" evidence for either case. Most of these debates where science is involved, I think have very little to do with science ultimately caring about this topic as much as religion does. But rather to try to fight ignorance as a result of religion. Now very important, Im not saying that all people that are religious are ignorant, but some are due to the wrong teachings of religions. For example when people start to believe that the Earth is 6000 years old.

I think this one is interesting as well:

Augustus · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong?

How do you get people of countless diverse cultures to agree on fundamental questions regarding existence/purpose? You don't. It's not possible.

Astosolece said:
I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution.

The idea that Humanity needs to progress to a state of global unity/harmony is simply a secular offshoot of religious eschatology.

It can be added to the pile of religious views about which you posed the question 'what if we're all wrong'?

TransmutingSoul · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Happy birthday and welcome.

The unity of humanity is not only possible it is inevitable. I say recognising that we are one human race will aid this process. I see only a God given and inspired religion can give us the motivation to find that unity.

All efforts of men without God, will lack the required spirit to achieve the required change.

Regards Tony

sayak83 · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Mass brainwashing maybe. Humans are tribal. It's a core trait. It can't be changed unless the brain itself is modified maybe...

Deeje · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic.

Hello and welcome to RF...there are many agnostics here.

I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light.

By "evidence" I suppose you mean something tangible? What would you require as evidence then?

To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.

Speaking for myself, I have no glaring contradictions to deal with and no pie in the sky beliefs to entertain. I just see the Bible as a guidebook and a revelation into the personality of God the Creator. I see the scriptures as one story from Genesis to Revelation with the unfolding of what the apostle Paul called the "sacred mystery" that has been gradually revealing itself little by little, at the time God meant for it to be understood in increments. What happened in the beginning is important because it explains what has been happening ever since. It also helps to reveal what is happening now and what we can expect to take place in the future.

The one huge impediment I see with today's Christianity is "I think"...rather than "God says"....people see what they want to see in scripture and only do what is convenient. A "cramped and narrow" road has no room for such thinking. It is cramped and narrow for a reason. (Matthew 7:13-14) What does "cramped and narrow" suggest?

The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved.

Indeed....something is very wrong....but what? Is there anything that can make sense of it all? I believe the Bible does....even explaining why Christianity itself is so divided.

So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that?

Its a legitimate question. But if there are just two roads as the Bible says, and only one leads to life and the other is a dead end, then there is your answer. We need to get off the superhighway to nowhere and find the exit ramp.
I believe that those who get it wrong are going nowhere. So can we get it right?

I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

You know that that scenario is not an impossibility......uniting as a species is very achievable if only we could value the lives of others as we value our own. Jesus said to 'treat others as you would like to be treated'....imagine if everyone did that? Yet in all of our history, humans have always found thing over which to divide themselves into warring camps. Bloodshed has never been anything but futile. It achieves nothing positive or permanent, and human lives lost in battle never reached their full potential.....in fact the way humans operate on this planet, no one really gets to reach their full potential. Even if we had the best leader in the world ruling our country....he will die or get voted out and the next person put in his place may be the worst ruler in existence.

Proverbs 29:2...
"When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice;
but when the wicked rule, the people groan." Can't argue with that....

Is there any real hope for peace on earth? I believe that the Bible holds out the only way that it will be achieved.

Vinayaka · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Good question. Personally, I see it as the inability to perceive that some other folks view life differently than you do, and that that is okay. If we took it to it's final level, there are as many world views as there are people. We disagree with our own twin brother on some things. Every individual person is different than every other person. So, in all that, there is no right or wrong at all, unless you can say everyone is right for themselves, and themselves alone.

So it's in ego, the separation of oneself from everyone else. Me versus them, selfishness. When that diminishes, individuals tend to become kinder, more tolerant, etc. So it's molecular (one person at a time) theory to social change.

pearl · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light.

Maybe such evidence does not exist. Since we operate on belief and no one belief has absolute answers maybe wrong is not the correct but 'different',

PureX · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Unfortunately, you've missed the whole point of theism. It's not about 'knowing' that God exists, based on 'evidence'. It's about the possibility that a God of our choosing could exist, and the positive results that such a possibility affords us in our lives if we choose to trust in it as a reality. Waiting to "know" is a fool's errand. Theism is about faith, not knowledge.

A lot of self-proclaimed theists make this same mistake, and wrongly think that faith is pretending that they 'know' God exists and what God wants of them, and of us. But this is a lie, and whenever we humans start living by our lies bad things tend to happen. Bad things happen because we try to force reality to comply with our false understanding of it. No human can know if "God" exists beyond their own intellectual conception. We simply do not possess the means required to verify the existence or nature of a "God" beyond our idealizations. So don't let the lies of these misguided "theists" send you down the same misguided path that they are on: thinking that you will ever be able to 'know' that God exists, or know that It doesn't. Theism is a proposition based on our UNknowing. And is therefor a faith-option that we have available to us if we want or need it.

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved.

Are you doing anything to try to help solve the problem? If so, what? Are you looking for better ways to help?

If you’re looking for ways to spread your idea that we could all be wrong, here’s my all-purpose strategy for spreading ideas:
- Continually improve my own practice of what I’m promoting.
- Learn to be a better friend to more people.
- Learn to tell stories that help people learn to love and practice the ideas.
- Help with the growth and spread of healthier, happier and more loving communities.
- Bring all that up for discussion sometimes.
- (joke)Pray to @Revoltingest If They aren’t available, pray to @PopeADope .(/joke)

Fool · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

welcome to RF

unification can only be accomplished by Love. if it isn't loving, friendly, it isn't necessary

Revoltingest · Jun 1, 2019

Jim said:
Are you doing anything to try to help solve the problem? If so, what? Are you looking for better ways to help?

If you’re looking for ways to spread your idea that we could all be wrong, here’s my all-purpose strategy for spreading ideas:
- Continually improve my own practice of what I’m promoting.
- Learn to be a better friend to more people.
- Learn to tell stories that help people learn to love and practice the ideas.
- Help with the growth and spread of healthier, happier and more loving communities.
- Bring all that up for discussion sometimes.
- (joke)Pray to @Revoltingest If They aren’t available, pray to @PopeADope .(/joke)

I'll add advice to seek common ground with others.
I've found that even seemingly opposing sides have a great deal in common:
- Atheists & believers
- Libertarians & Republicrats.
- Anti-Trumpettes & Pro-Trumpettes

Bad attitudes are what separate us, & foment discord.

I'm often reminded of this guy....
How One Man Convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan Members To Give Up Their Robes

Fool · Jun 1, 2019

Revoltingest said:
I'll add advice to seek common ground with others.
I've found that even seemingly opposing sides have a great deal in common:
- Atheists & believers
- Libertarians & Republicrats.
- Anti-Trumpettes & Pro-Trumpettes

Bad attitudes are what separate us, & foment discord.

I'm often reminded of this guy....
How One Man Convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan Members To Give Up Their Robes

Matthew 8:11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the eastand west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

i love the fact that you're always offering food to the newbies.

gourmand

Revoltingest · Jun 1, 2019

Fool said:
i love the fact that you're always offering food to the newbies.
gourmand

I like food.
And I get a great deal on pictures of it.

Jim · Jun 1, 2019

Revoltingest said:
I'll add advice to seek common ground with others.
I've found that even seemingly opposing sides have a great deal in common:
- Atheists & believers
- Libertarians & Republicrats.
- Anti-Trumpettes & Pro-Trumpettes

@Astosolece As another example, Revoltingest is a Bokononist and I’m a failure at promoting the Anguish Languish, and yet he has been my supreme god for at least a few hours now, and he answers all my prayers, so you see? Anything is possible.

Katzpur · Jun 1, 2019

Astosolece said:
I myself am not religious. I’m not an atheist. I guess this would leave me in the category of an agnostic. I’m reserving judgement till more evidence comes to light. To me, claiming that any one of the current beliefs—be it for or against any type of religion—is “the right way,” is just way too ego driven (to me). Either way, you have to overlook some pretty glaring contradictions if you’re going to take any hard position and stand firm on it.
The growing evangelical movement in this country is worrisome to me. The world has become so small, yet people are seemingly more and more divided, with religion being one of the core factors involved. So my question is this:

How can you get the religions of the world to come to an accord and freely discuss the possibility that perhaps we’re all wrong? And if we were wrong, what would be wrong with that? I realize that’s asking a lot, but if that question could be successfully answered, it might bring us one step closer to uniting as a species, which to me is the only way through this stage in our evolution. Well, the only humane way through it anyway. Just something that’s been on my mind, that’s all.

Even though I am fairly religious, I am 100% with you. Excellent post. Welcome to the forum!

Astosolece · Jun 1, 2019

Nimos said:
I think most people (none convinced) have asked them self what you are asking here. The problem is that its not something you can really do, people that believe in God, are absolute certain that God exist.

Well that guy is very passionate, isn’t he? I can feel his frustration coming through his voice. I read that scientists estimate that religion has set us back ate least a thousand years in the advancement of our technological development. But at the same time, while trying to thwart efforts at educating people about the world and universe as we have come to know it, religions are still more than happy to use new technology to weaponize their own faith against that of others.

What would be wrong with being wrong?

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