Salvation from what?

Random · Oct 19, 2006

Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism: all the worlds major religions expressly proclaim the need for human beings to be saved. To achive ones Salvation, one must tread a particular path towards God, Enlightenment or whatever.

My question is, according to your beliefs, what is it that you are supposed to be saved from?

Is salvation, as an Atheist might have it, merely religions offer to solve a problem of its own making?

Is it from Hell, or the encyclical rounds of Rebirth? Or both?

Please, as openly and concisely as possible, express your view of what Salvation means and whether or not it has any intrinsic value or worth in your life and the life of other human beings.

Jaymes · Oct 19, 2006

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Buddhism doesn't offer salvation, merely a path to follow that ends suffering.

The only thing I can think of that I'd need saving from is my own mind. But it's not really saving if you help yourself, is it?

jewscout · Oct 19, 2006

Godlike said:
My question is, according to your beliefs, what is it that you are supposed to be saved from?

i don't think you need to be saved from anything...

Booko · Oct 19, 2006

Godlike said:
My question is, according to your beliefs, what is it that you are supposed to be saved from?

Is it from Hell, or the encyclical rounds of Rebirth? Or both?

Neither.

In the Baha'i Writings, as far as I've read and understood them, it's not typically the individual that's being saved, but humanity at large. This is not to say there isn't action going on at the the individual level -- there is. But individual salvation doesn't seem to be a focus as it is in previous religions. Maybe God figured we have figured out much of that lesson already and now its time to move on? :shrug:

I don't find a lot of Writings that pertain very directly to soteriology. This is the best I could come up with:

It is, therefore, evident and proved that an effort must be put forward to complete the purpose and plan of the teachings of God in order that in this great Day of days the world may be reformed, souls resuscitated, a new spirit of life found, hearts become illumined, mankind rescued from the bondage of nature, saved from the baseness of materialism and attain spirituality and radiance in attraction toward the divine Kingdom. This is necessary; this is needful. Mere reading of the Holy Books and texts will not suffice.

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 250)

Pray that God may assist in this heavenly undertaking, that the world of mankind shall be saved from the ordeals of ignorance, blindness and spiritual death. Then will you behold light upon light, joy upon joy, absolute happiness reigning everywhere, the people of the religions consorting together in fragrance and felicity, this world in its maturity becoming the reflection of the eternal Kingdom and this terrestrial abode of man the very paradise of God. Pray for this! Pray for this!

(Abdu'l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 441)

Please, as openly and concisely as possible, express your view of what Salvation means and whether or not it has any intrinsic value or worth in your life and the life of other human beings.

Soteriology, in a Baha'i sense, I find great value in. This is especially so every time I read the news. :sarcastic

Random · Oct 19, 2006

jewscout said:
i don't think you need to be saved from anything...

Why? Isn't salvation from sin or suffering relevant?

MysticSang'ha · Oct 19, 2006

Godlike said:
Why? Isn't salvation from sin or suffering relevant?

It's a good question, but to be saved from something means that you're also sort of off the hook in pertaining to some of life's circumstances - and some believe that being saved gets you off the hook from everything on Earth and on lower planes (i.e. hell).

Salvation is not the individual's goal. Enlightenment is. This takes practice (which is lots of work, diligence, and perserverance).

Peace,
Mystic

Booko · Oct 19, 2006

MysticSang'ha said:
It's a good question, but to be saved from something means that you're also sort of off the hook in pertaining to some of life's circumstances - and some believe that being saved gets you off the hook from everything on Earth and on lower planes (i.e. hell).

That's the problem using the term "salvation" -- we've come to understand it in some very limited fashion as used by some minority of highly visible Christians. And so, as applied to other religions, or even other denominations of Christianity, it can cause confusion.

Salvation is not the individual's goal. Enlightenment is. This takes practice (which is lots of work, diligence, and perserverance).

Honestly, I do see the two terms salvation/enlightenment as just two ways of describing the same phenomenon.

That "salvation" was given a "cheap and easy" form by some people who apparently didn't read the entire book of James ("Faith without works is dead") doesn't mean there isn't some "work" involved or that "salvation" is not somehow a process and not just some magical event.)

What passes for being "saved" sometimes reminds me of finding yourself at a point in life where you're in the car, there's fuel in the tank, the key is in the ignition: and now you have to start the thing and GO someplace in it.

The final destination one might call salvation or Enlightenment. The people who do the best job getting there, we typically recognize as "saintly" regardless of their religious vehicle.

jewscout · Oct 19, 2006

Godlike said:
Why? Isn't salvation from sin or suffering relevant?

why? we all sin, we all suffer, it's called being human.

when you fall down, dust yourself off and get back up.

blueman · Oct 19, 2006

In the Christian faith, salvation is a restoration of a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Sin represented the fall of humanity and seperation from God. In order to restore the severed relationship, Jesus willingly bore the sins of humanity which resulted in the atonement of sins for all who accept Him as Saviour and acknowledge their falling short of the glory of God as a result of sin (Romans 3:23). As a Christian through the acceptance and faith in Christ for His sacrifice, are saved from an eternal seperation from God Almighty.

Real Sorceror · Oct 19, 2006

Godlike said:

Salvation from what?

Click to expand...

The great Shaytan!!11! :fork:

ps. JK!

mattlevan · Oct 19, 2006

jewscout said:
why? we all sin, we all suffer, it's called being human.

when you fall down, dust yourself off and get back up.

So, then, you'd like to be saved from the inability to get back up, right?

Booko · Oct 19, 2006

mattlevan said:
So, then, you'd like to be saved from the inability to get back up, right?

You know, jewscouts response is about what I'd expect from someone who's Jewish. Goodness knows, I've seen it often enough.

Jews get told all the time how they need to be "saved" and it has to be annoying as all get out.

If they refuse accept that particular term into their religious communication, that seems only natural.

jewscout · Oct 19, 2006

mattlevan said:
So, then, you'd like to be saved from the inability to get back up, right?

who says i'm unable to get back up on my own?

mattlevan · Oct 19, 2006

jewscout said:
who says i'm unable to get back up on my own?

I'm not saying your unable, but if there was a possibilty of that, which there is for everyone, would you like to be saved from it?

Or is it that you know there will be hardships, and you accept that as part of life and will try your best to overcome them?

But, in those times of hardship, wouldn't you like to be saved from them so that you can move on to the next one and learn something new? Are all the periods of difficulty meaningless? Do they teach? If they do, then with each new lesson/challenge, wouldn't you be getting closer to "salvation" from repetition of similar hardships? What's the point of trying to hurdle obstacles if you can't better yourself in the process?

Matt

jewscout · Oct 19, 2006

mattlevan said:
I'm not saying your unable, but if there was a possibilty of that, which there is for everyone, would you like to be saved from it?

i do not believe G-d would have placed me, or anyone else for that matter, here if we were unable to change, that we would need some supernatural force to do the changing for us because we are simply unable to.

mattlevan said:
Or is it that you know there will be hardships, and you accept that as part of life and will try your best to overcome them?

life is a test, no one ever promised it was going to be easy.

i believe that G-d does, and can, save, however my understanding of "Salvation" and the traditionally held christian concept, which predominates in western culture, are different.

mattlevan said:
But, in those times of hardship, wouldn't you like to be saved from them so that you can move on to the next one and learn something new?

if i'm saved without learning anything or growing, what was the point of the hardship?

mattlevan said:
Are all the periods of difficulty meaningless?

no

mattlevan said:
Do they teach?

yes

mattlevan said:
If they do, then with each new lesson/challenge, wouldn't you be getting closer to "salvation" from repetition of similar hardships?

not necessarily. I remember reading, from the Rebbe of Breslav i think, where it is said that the higher level of spiritual purity you reach, the more difficult the tests become. And they are always constant.

mattlevan said:
What's the point of trying to hurdle obstacles if you can't better yourself in the process?

you can, but it's not about ultimately seeking "Salvation" from anything, for you are always bombarded w/ the temptations of the Yetzer HaRa, the Evil inclination. That is how we ultimately grow, life tempts us to do wrong and it is up to us to make the choice of which way to go.

for me, Salvation is not the ultimate goal.

SPLogan · Oct 19, 2006

blueman said:
In the Christian faith, salvation is a restoration of a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Sin represented the fall of humanity and seperation from God. In order to restore the severed relationship, Jesus willingly bore the sins of humanity which resulted in the atonement of sins for all who accept Him as Saviour and acknowledge their falling short of the glory of God as a result of sin (Romans 3:23). As a Christian through the acceptance and faith in Christ for His sacrifice, are saved from an eternal seperation from God Almighty.

I would add that the specific thing people are saved from is God's wrath. In other words, God saves people from His own divine justice by taking credit for their sin and accepting sin's just punishment upon Himself in Christ.
In essence, "sin" is all forms of rebellion from God.

Quiddity · Oct 19, 2006

jewscout said:
i do not believe G-d would have placed me, or anyone else for that matter, here if we were unable to change, that we would need some supernatural force to do the changing for us because we are simply unable to.

Even if you are able to, it could be meanigless to God. Salvation is not just something we are or not able to do, but also whether our works mean anything to God. How does this apply to your faith?

blueman · Oct 19, 2006

Victor said:
Even if you are able to, it could be meanigless to God. Salvation is not just something we are or not able to do, but also whether our works mean anything to God. How does this apply to your faith?

If I am intepreting what you are saying correctly, do you believe we are saved through our works? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Quiddity · Oct 19, 2006

blueman said:
If I am intepreting what you are saying correctly, do you believe we are saved through our works? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe we are saved by Grace working in Love. Works are pointless (salvifically speaking) if not approved by God.

Booko · Oct 19, 2006

Victor said:
I believe we are saved by Grace working in Love. Works are pointless (salvifically speaking) if not approved by God.

Like the idea that works done for the wrong reason (in the wrong spirit) are not worth anything as far as spiritual growth or salvation goes?

Salvation from what?

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