Christian Writer Insists There’s No Sex in Heaven (In Case You Were Wondering)

Trailblazer said:

You asked the question so now you are going to get the answer, and it ain’t pretty… You had better hope you do not go to hell, and I hope this long description acts as a deterrent for you, or for anyone who reads it…

I see that people think that hell is a joke, but it is not funny, especially if you end up there…

Hell is not where you go because you did not believe that Jesus Christ was your Savior. Hell is where you go if you lived for yourself and your selfish desires. The good news is that atheists don’t have to go to hell if they live a good life. The bad news is that this applies to believers as well as nonbelievers. There is no free ride on the back of Jesus.

Below is an apt description of hell channeled from a spirit to a medium who wrote down what he communicated.

“I have looked into hell! I may have to return to that region. I shall be given my choice. Grant that I may be strong enough to offer myself freely. Hell is a thought region. Evil dwells there and works out its purposes. The forces used to hold mankind down in the darkness of ignorance are generated in hell! It is not a place; it is a condition. The human race has created the condition. It has taken millions of years to reach its present state. I dare not tell you what I saw there.... At first I refused to go.... There was no life, no light there. One felt stagnation everywhere. The angel said that was the most insidious kind of hell, stagnation, because no one recognised it as such. Contrary to belief, hell itself, or rather that part of it visited by my brother and the angel, is brilliantly lighted. The light is coarse, artificial. It keeps out the light of God. In this awful glare the angel's light nearly lost its radiance.

All this my brother told me afterwards. Those who die filled with thoughts of selfishness and sensuality are attracted down the grey avenues toward this hell of the senses. The darkness of the deep forests appalls, the loneliness is intense. At last, light is seen ahead. It is not the light of heaven, it is the lure of hell. These poor souls hasten onwards, though not toward destruction; there is no such thing. They hasten down into conditions that are the counterpart of their own interior condition. The Law is at work. This hell is a hell of the illusions and is itself an illusion. I find this hard to credit. Those who enter it are led to believe that the only realities are the sense passions and the beliefs of the human 'I'. This hell consists in believing the unreal to be real. It consists in the lure of the senses without the possibility of gratifying them. I was told a great deal more about this awful region, but I must not pass it on. The angel said that the 'condition' would ultimately dissolve into nothingness. Hell or apparently that part of it we are speaking about, depends for its existence on human thoughts and feelings. The race will never rise to greatness until the passions are controlled. This refers to nations and to individuals. On earth I was never interested in such matters. I did not realise the existence of the sexual canker at the heart of human life. What a terrible thing this is! Do not wait until you come over here. Set to work at once. There is no time to lose. Gain control of self. Then retain control by emptying yourself of self. All the thoughts of lust and passion, greed, hatred, envy, and, above all, selfishness, passing through the minds of men and women, generate the 'condition' called hell.

Purgatory and hell are different states. We all must needs pass through a purging, purifying process after leaving earth life. I am still in purgatory. Some day I shall rise above it. The majority who come over here rise above or rather THROUGH purgatory into higher conditions. A minority refuse to relinquish their thoughts and beliefs in the pleasures of sin and the reality of the sense life. They sink by the weight of their own thoughts.No outside power can attract a man against his will. A man sinks or rises through the action of a spiritual law of gravity. He is never safe until he has emptied himself completely. You see how I emphasise this fact. Some of these thoughts came to me whilst I waited in that gloomy forest. Then the angel and my brother returned. They had found him for whom they sought. He would not come away. They had to leave him there. Fear held him. He said his existence was awful, but he was afraid to move lest worse conditions should befall him.” Private Dowding, pp. 32-35

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You're still not selling it me.

Sounds very much the sort of place that is made up by priests and elders wanting to keep their flock in control.

Anyway, I thought Purgatory had been scrapped or was that Limbo, whatever. If you invent places, I suppose you can un-invent them too.

As an atheist I find all these places to be totally unbelievable. There is absolutely no evidence for their existence - they are just there to put fear in the believers.

Even I have a fianceè we live in celibacy, So I am 100% sure that would not be a problem if I reach Nirvana in Buddhism. (Heaven)

Skwim said:

"The question you’ve all been wondering has finally been answered.

Do people have sex in Heaven? Absolutely not!

​

View attachment 29456​

At least that’s the response from Greg Morse, a staff writer for the website Desiring God, who previously blasted the feminist “insanity” in Captain Marvel and said that “effeminate” men won’t get into Heaven at all.

Morse says he was recently talking to an “avid admirer of women’s company” who mentioned that the supposed Islamic belief in 72 virgins sounded very appealing. Which is totally the sort of conversation normal people have around a Christian writer… and is very believable since people who have lots of sex always talk about how much fun virgins are.

Anyway, Morse said there’s no sex in Heaven — much to the man’s surprise — because God has something way, way better in store for everyone.

I have need to remind myself: All that is sweet in human marriage to my coheir on this earth will not be ultimately lost but transformed. The new depth of intimacy I will have with my Lord — and every other saint, including my spouse — will look back on the caterpillar of earthly joys with fondness but not longing. And this makes marriage, and the intoxication of sexual intimacy, all the sweeter now.

We enjoy our candy now, and as we do, we grow in our trust in the Father who knows how to give good — the best gifts — to his children. Our heaven does not offer sexual pleasure, but it offers that which makes sexual pleasure obsolete.​

By that logic, everything Christians say about Heaven is meaningless since you can just say there’s something better awaiting them. (A harp? We have even more glorious instruments in Heaven. A toilet?! No one ****s in Heaven! Seeing your loved ones again? We have even better loved ones in Heaven!) It’s also a cruel answer for all those people who don’t get to experience sex on Earth due to self-imposed abstinence, a lack of opportunities, or a disability.

But given how many conservative Christians believe sex is only permissible within the bounds of marriage if the goal is to have a baby, and you’re not married or giving birth in Heaven, the answer is the only one that makes sense using their own warped logic. (Turns out, in Heaven, no one is risen.)

At least we can all sleep soundly knowing there’s plenty of sex in Hell."

source​

So, good people:

Do people have sex in Heaven?

.

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Matthew 22:23-33 New International Version (NIV)
That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. Finally, the woman died. Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.



Would there be sex in hell?
If you could hack it, why not.

Skwim said:

"The question you’ve all been wondering has finally been answered.

Do people have sex in Heaven? Absolutely not!

​

View attachment 29456​

At least that’s the response from Greg Morse, a staff writer for the website Desiring God, who previously blasted the feminist “insanity” in Captain Marvel and said that “effeminate” men won’t get into Heaven at all.

Morse says he was recently talking to an “avid admirer of women’s company” who mentioned that the supposed Islamic belief in 72 virgins sounded very appealing. Which is totally the sort of conversation normal people have around a Christian writer… and is very believable since people who have lots of sex always talk about how much fun virgins are.

Anyway, Morse said there’s no sex in Heaven — much to the man’s surprise — because God has something way, way better in store for everyone.

I have need to remind myself: All that is sweet in human marriage to my coheir on this earth will not be ultimately lost but transformed. The new depth of intimacy I will have with my Lord — and every other saint, including my spouse — will look back on the caterpillar of earthly joys with fondness but not longing. And this makes marriage, and the intoxication of sexual intimacy, all the sweeter now.

We enjoy our candy now, and as we do, we grow in our trust in the Father who knows how to give good — the best gifts — to his children. Our heaven does not offer sexual pleasure, but it offers that which makes sexual pleasure obsolete.​

By that logic, everything Christians say about Heaven is meaningless since you can just say there’s something better awaiting them. (A harp? We have even more glorious instruments in Heaven. A toilet?! No one ****s in Heaven! Seeing your loved ones again? We have even better loved ones in Heaven!) It’s also a cruel answer for all those people who don’t get to experience sex on Earth due to self-imposed abstinence, a lack of opportunities, or a disability.

But given how many conservative Christians believe sex is only permissible within the bounds of marriage if the goal is to have a baby, and you’re not married or giving birth in Heaven, the answer is the only one that makes sense using their own warped logic. (Turns out, in Heaven, no one is risen.)

At least we can all sleep soundly knowing there’s plenty of sex in Hell."

source​

So, good people:

Do people have sex in Heaven?

.

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Penises and vaginas were created for worldly functions, I think. Do male angels have things? Do female angels have "honkers"?

And so the OP's tedious preoccupation with sex continues..........

Jesus was quite clear about this in Matthew 22:30.

Marriage and sexual union are earthly goods. And like all other earthly goods they are destined to pass away. The hope of the Christian isn't a nicer, eternal extension of this world and its pleasures but rather the face to face vision with the infinite. To see God directly is alone the complete and endless happiness to which man is destined. No one with that vision will miss this limited world and its ephemeral pleasures.

Skwim said:

Do people have sex in Heaven? Absolutely not!​

.

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I assume this is based on Matthew 22:

That rather strongly implies that angels don't bonk and neither does anyone else. Which is to say, Paul's 'spiritual body' doesn't come with the equipment, not even as an option on the deLuxe model.

I'm not aware of any other place in the bible where postmortal bonking is discussed.

Incidentally, if in fact there's no bonking in heaven, what's all this biblical homophobia about?

sun rise said:

Nowhere in the Quran does it promise 72 virgins, 70 virgins, 48 virgins. … The Arabic word for ‘virgin’ has been mistranslated. The original [word] that was used in the Quran was the word for raisin, not virgin. In other words, that martyrs would get raisins in heaven, not virgins,”

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The Qur’an refers to Heaven as ‘al-janna’, meaning ‘the garden’. It is the home of the righteous; the home of Peace.

Professor M.A.S. Abdel Haleem writes:

‘The Qur’an clearly states that the descriptions that are given of janna are given as mathal (13:35; and 47:15), which the translators have rendered as ‘parable’, ‘similitude’ or ‘likeness’ – in other words, specific representations of things that belong to this world but are used to refer to the next.

‘Full knowledge of the real nature of the rewards of the righteous, the Qur’an says, ‘is kept hidden’, it has not been given to any human. The same verbal form is used in Arabic to negate such knowledge – la ta‘lamu – applies to the present and to the future: fa lā ta‘lamu nafsun mā ‘ukhfiya lahum min qurrati a‘yūnin' (No soul knows what joy is laid up for them secretly as a reward for what they were doing.)

‘The popular conception of paradise in the Qur’an (based perhaps on an exaggeration of this physical picture) is that it is the abode of sensual pleasure par excellence; but examination of actual descriptions in the Qur’an gives quite a different picture.

‘The inhabitants of janna are not seen to indulge in sensual pleasures; material rewards are seen to be symbolic of honouring; material rewards are actually outnumbered by moral and spiritual rewards; and material rewards are also outranked by these non-material ones.

‘Although food is provided, throughout the Qur’an the dwellers in paradise are not usually seen actually eating. Four items of food are mentioned: flesh of fowl twice, fruits twelve times, and pure honey and milk once. They are invited to ‘eat and drink’ but this invitation is made only three times out of the twenty-seven where this expression is used in the Qur’an; the rest of the references are to do with this world. In any case, eating and drinking in the garden is not for the protection of life or health, as God has given the inhabitants bodies that do not deteriorate. The meat and fruit available in paradise (described as being ‘any fruit they want; the meat of any bird they like’ (56:20-1) are offered as a token of honour (37:42).’ (‘Understanding the Qur’an – Themes and Style’).

Professor Haleem continues:

‘There is no overt mention in the Qur’an of sex taking place between spouses in janna, although the relationship is lawful between spouses and the Qur’an does not shy away from mentioning it in the context of this world. The mutual love (‘uruban) between spouses in the garden (56:37–8) epitomises the most fulfilling aspect of the relationship between spouses as expressed in the Qur’an: Another of His signs is that He created spouses from among yourselves for you to live with in tranquillity: He ordained love and kindness between you. 30:21

‘No discomfort or ill health will result from eating and drinking there. The drink is pure. It neither dulls their senses nor causes intoxication (37:47); it causes no headaches (56:19); it is ‘a cup which does not lead to any idle talk or sin’ (52:23).

‘In these pleasing surroundings stand ‘good, peaceful homes’ (9:72) with ‘lofty dwellings built for them, one above the other, graced with flowing streams’ (39:20). There are detailed descriptions of these goodly dwellings (e.g. 55:52–72; 56:15–34; and 88:13–16) – raised couches upholstered in brocade, goblets placed ready, cushions arranged and carpets outspread. We see the dwellers in pleasant company: ‘they will enter perpetual gardens, along with their righteous ancestors, spouses, and descendants’ (13:23; and 52:20–1) adorned in green silk. They sit on couches in a relaxed manner, engaged in pleasant conversation, recalling happy memories, absorbed in rejoicing; their faces shining, laughing and joyous (80:38–9).

‘Another aspect of janna which contributes to the popular image of physical pleasure is the ḥūr. Part of God’s blessing on the righteous is that they will be joined in paradise with the righteous of their parents, spouses (azwāj) and offspring (13:23). This is in stark contrast to the dwellers of hell who will suffer loneliness. The azwāj (mentioned seven times) are described as being ‘made pure’ (2:25; 3:15; and 4:57) and four times as being hūr – i.e. of wide, brilliantly black and white eyes. Beauty of the eyes is part of the beauty of faces, and the dwellers in paradise delight in looking at each other’s faces. Al-Janna is not the home of ‘believing men’ only but also of ‘believing women’. This is made clear in such passages as 3:195; 4:124, 176; 9:72; 16:97; 33:35 and 48:5. The believing women of this world will be ḥūr there, as the Prophet explains in his ḥadīth. The ḥūr will be lustrous in colour, like rubies and pearls (55:58; and 56:23). First they are described as being of modest gaze, then as having beautiful eyes (37:48). They are described once as being kawā'iban (78:33), and twice as being of similar age to their companions (78:33; and 56:37).’ (Op.cit.)


As for your link to Irshad Manji and Nicholas Kristof: Ahhhh, the perils of ripping a text (or, in their case, a single word) out of its context!

Allāh (subḥānahu ūta'āla) says: ‘Those mindful of Allāh will be in a safe place amid Gardens and springs, clothed in silk and fine brocade, facing one another: and We shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes.’ (Al-Dukhan: 52-54).

The text ‘We shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes’ renders: ‘wazawwajnāhum biḥūrin ʿīnin.’

We find the same assurance in sūrah ‘Al-Tur: 20’: ‘And We shall marry them to fair ones having beautiful eyes’ (‘wazawwajnāhum biḥūrin ʿīnin’).

The Arabic for raisins is zebīb.

The Arabic for grapes is 'enab.

Please explain how the word ‘ḥūrin’ (‘fair ones’) - applicable to both males and females - can be rendered ‘raisins’ or ‘grapes’?

And how is it possible for a human to marry one?

And have you ever seen a raisin (or a grape) that had eyes (beautiful, or otherwise)?

And do I really need to say more?

Skwim said:

Do people have sex in Heaven?

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I would guess if there is such a place after we die, maybe. I don't think sex is meant to be just procreative. That's an archaic position.

RedDragon94 said:

I would guess if there is such a place after we die, maybe. I don't think sex is meant to be just procreative. That's an archaic position.

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In fact, considering how much people enjoy doing it for its own sake I think procreation is probably near the bottom of the list of reasons.

.

blü 2 said:

Incidentally, if in fact there's no bonking in heaven, what's all this biblical homophobia about?

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They're proclamations of closet homosexuals trying to establish help to keep away from connecting up with that cute apostle over there. You know, the one with the loonngg sheep staff.



To be serious though, several times I've asked why god detests homosexual sex and I have never gotten a reasonable reply. Strange thing is that while Christians have no trouble discerning the whys and wherefores of many of god's actions and proclamations, this one is a real stumper.


.

Skwim said:

They're proclamations of closet homosexuals trying to establish help to keep away from connecting up with that cute apostle over there. You know, the one with the loonngg sheep staff.

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Ah, the Nordic shepherd, Jesus Volvoensis. He'd go well in a shampoo-and-conditioner ad.

Skwim said:

To be serious though, several times I've asked why god detests homosexual sex, and I have never gotten a reasonable reply. Strange thing is that while Christians have no trouble discerning the whys and wherefores of many of god's actions and proclamations, this one is a real stumper.

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But the Western world is moving against homophobia, as the same-sex marriage laws and referenda have shown. Quite a journey from 1969 and the Greenwich Village riots.

As for why God hates gays, projection? Why was his divorce from Asherah so bitter? (I wonder what she's doing these days?)

Altfish said:

You're still not selling it me.

Sounds very much the sort of place that is made up by priests and elders wanting to keep their flock in control.

Anyway, I thought Purgatory had been scrapped or was that Limbo, whatever. If you invent places, I suppose you can un-invent them too.

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No, it was not made up by any religious clerics, it was channeled from a spirit through a medium who was describing what that spirit saw on the “other side” when he journeyed to hell. That medium was not selling any religion.

The most important points to note of all that he said about hell is that we choose to go to hell by what we are attracted to: “Those who die filled with thoughts of selfishness and sensuality are attracted down the grey avenues toward this hell of the senses” and then when we enter hell are stuck there believing the unreal to be real and having desires that can never be fulfilled: “Those who enter it are led to believe that the only realities are the sense passions and the beliefs of the human 'I'. This hell consists in believing the unreal to be real. It consists in the lure of the senses without the possibility of gratifying them.”

Altfish said:

As an atheist I find all these places to be totally unbelievable. There is absolutely no evidence for their existence - they are just there to put fear in the believers.

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Hell is not an actual place we go to, not a matter of geography. Note whet he said “Hell is a thought region. Evil dwells there and works out its purposes. The forces used to hold mankind down in the darkness of ignorance are generated in hell! It is not a place; it is a condition. The human race has created the condition.”

In the material world all we can relate to and understand are actual physical places we go to, but the spiritual world is very different because nothing is physical, and as such it is impossible it is impossible to understand what a thought region is...

It is not only atheists who find such depictions of hell unbelievable. People do not want to believe it because it is frightening. Most Christians would rather believe that hell is a lake of fire where other people go, and they are smug in their belief that they are going to heaven. What this depiction of hell endeavors to do is clarify what hell really is – it is really rather simple: “All the thoughts of lust and passion, greed, hatred, envy, and, above all, selfishness, passing through the minds of men and women, generate the 'condition' called hell.”

So people can avoid hell by avoiding these thoughts and all the actions that ensue from them. I cannot say that will get them to heaven but at least in purgatory they will able to get their bearings and prepare to advance towards heaven.

I am not sure that everyone goes to purgatory before they enter heaven because there are indications in the Writings of Baha’u’llah that some people will take the direct flight to heaven, whereas others will take the direct flight to hell. Keep in mind that “they that live in error” refers to a way of living, not a belief, so it is not directed at nonbelievers. Note also that it says “they that are the followers of the one true God” which means that they followed the teachings of the religions they believed in.

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought. I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

I guess the people who did not only believe in God but also lived according to the teachings of their religion will be the people who do not require a purging process, but they will probably be in a small minority. If one follows the teachings of true religion as it was revealed by God, before it was tampered with by man, they cannot help but improve their character, and the more work we do on our character in THIS LIFE, the better the condition we will end up in at the moment of death. People who just waste their life away eating and drinking and being merry and living for their selfish desires,with little or no thoughts of other people, will have to go through a purging process, if they are even fortunate enough not go straight to hell.

Trailblazer said:

No, it was not made up by any religious clerics, it was channeled from a spirit through a medium who was describing what that spirit saw on the “other side” when he journeyed to hell. That medium was not selling any religion.

The most important points to note of all that he said about hell is that we choose to go to hell by what we are attracted to: “Those who die filled with thoughts of selfishness and sensuality are attracted down the grey avenues toward this hell of the senses” and then when we enter hell are stuck there believing the unreal to be real and having desires that can never be fulfilled: “Those who enter it are led to believe that the only realities are the sense passions and the beliefs of the human 'I'. This hell consists in believing the unreal to be real. It consists in the lure of the senses without the possibility of gratifying them.”

Hell is not an actual place we go to, not a matter of geography. Note whet he said “Hell is a thought region. Evil dwells there and works out its purposes. The forces used to hold mankind down in the darkness of ignorance are generated in hell! It is not a place; it is a condition. The human race has created the condition.”

In the material world all we can relate to and understand are actual physical places we go to, but the spiritual world is very different because nothing is physical, and as such it is impossible it is impossible to understand what a thought region is...

It is not only atheists who find such depictions of hell unbelievable. People do not want to believe it because it is frightening. Most Christians would rather believe that hell is a lake of fire where other people go, and they are smug in their belief that they are going to heaven. What this depiction of hell endeavors to do is clarify what hell really is – it is really rather simple: “All the thoughts of lust and passion, greed, hatred, envy, and, above all, selfishness, passing through the minds of men and women, generate the 'condition' called hell.”

So people can avoid hell by avoiding these thoughts and all the actions that ensue from them. I cannot say that will get them to heaven but at least in purgatory they will able to get their bearings and prepare to advance towards heaven.

I am not sure that everyone goes to purgatory before they enter heaven because there are indications in the Writings of Baha’u’llah that some people will take the direct flight to heaven, whereas others will take the direct flight to hell. Keep in mind that “they that live in error” refers to a way of living, not a belief, so it is not directed at nonbelievers. Note also that it says “they that are the followers of the one true God” which means that they followed the teachings of the religions they believed in.

“It is clear and evident that all men shall, after their physical death, estimate the worth of their deeds, and realize all that their hands have wrought. I swear by the Day Star that shineth above the horizon of Divine power! They that are the followers of the one true God shall, the moment they depart out of this life, experience such joy and gladness as would be impossible to describe, while they that live in error shall be seized with such fear and trembling, and shall be filled with such consternation, as nothing can exceed. Well is it with him that hath quaffed the choice and incorruptible wine of faith through the gracious favor and the manifold bounties of Him Who is the Lord of all Faiths…” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

I guess the people who did not only believe in God but also lived according to the teachings of their religion will be the people who do not require a purging process, but they will probably be in a small minority. If one follows the teachings of true religion as it was revealed by God, before it was tampered with by man, they cannot help but improve their character, and the more work we do on our character in THIS LIFE, the better the condition we will end up in at the moment of death. People who just waste their life away eating and drinking and being merry and living for their selfish desires,with little or no thoughts of other people, will have to go through a purging process, if they are even fortunate enough not go straight to hell.

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I don't find it frightening, I find it funny.

You no more know what hell is, whether it exists than I do.
If you need the threat of Hell to lead a good life then you are a weak person.

Altfish said:

I don't find it frightening, I find it funny.

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The fact that you find it funny probably means that if you end up there you probably won't even know you are in hell. It will just be business as usual. That is what I have read will happen from various sources.
So you will never know what you could have had in heaven, and I find that rather sad.

Keep in mind these are not religious sources, as God has not revealed a whole hell of a lot about heaven or hell; God likes to keep us guessing. So it could be better or worse than we think.

Altfish said:

You no more know what hell is, whether it exists than I do.

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I do not know what hell is like because it is not describable from the earthly vantage point, but I do know more than you do because I read a lot, so I have "some idea."

Altfish said:

If you need the threat of Hell to lead a good life then you are a weak person.

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Who said I need the threat of hell to be a good person? I certainly don't. I do what I do out of principle and I would do it even if I was not a believer.

Baha'is are not supposed to worship God to gain heaven or avoid hell although that is the natural outcome, if we worship God for His sake, not for a reward in heaven.

Trailblazer said:

You asked the question so now you are going to get the answer, and it ain’t pretty… You had better hope you do not go to hell, and I hope this long description acts as a deterrent for you, or for anyone who reads it…

I see that people think that hell is a joke, but it is not funny, especially if you end up there…

Hell is not where you go because you did not believe that Jesus Christ was your Savior. Hell is where you go if you lived for yourself and your selfish desires. The good news is that atheists don’t have to go to hell if they live a good life. The bad news is that this applies to believers as well as nonbelievers. There is no free ride on the back of Jesus.

Below is an apt description of hell channeled from a spirit to a medium who wrote down what he communicated.

“I have looked into hell! I may have to return to that region. I shall be given my choice. Grant that I may be strong enough to offer myself freely. Hell is a thought region. Evil dwells there and works out its purposes. The forces used to hold mankind down in the darkness of ignorance are generated in hell! It is not a place; it is a condition. The human race has created the condition. It has taken millions of years to reach its present state. I dare not tell you what I saw there.... At first I refused to go.... There was no life, no light there. One felt stagnation everywhere. The angel said that was the most insidious kind of hell, stagnation, because no one recognised it as such. Contrary to belief, hell itself, or rather that part of it visited by my brother and the angel, is brilliantly lighted. The light is coarse, artificial. It keeps out the light of God. In this awful glare the angel's light nearly lost its radiance.

All this my brother told me afterwards. Those who die filled with thoughts of selfishness and sensuality are attracted down the grey avenues toward this hell of the senses. The darkness of the deep forests appalls, the loneliness is intense. At last, light is seen ahead. It is not the light of heaven, it is the lure of hell. These poor souls hasten onwards, though not toward destruction; there is no such thing. They hasten down into conditions that are the counterpart of their own interior condition. The Law is at work. This hell is a hell of the illusions and is itself an illusion. I find this hard to credit. Those who enter it are led to believe that the only realities are the sense passions and the beliefs of the human 'I'. This hell consists in believing the unreal to be real. It consists in the lure of the senses without the possibility of gratifying them. I was told a great deal more about this awful region, but I must not pass it on. The angel said that the 'condition' would ultimately dissolve into nothingness. Hell or apparently that part of it we are speaking about, depends for its existence on human thoughts and feelings. The race will never rise to greatness until the passions are controlled. This refers to nations and to individuals. On earth I was never interested in such matters. I did not realise the existence of the sexual canker at the heart of human life. What a terrible thing this is! Do not wait until you come over here. Set to work at once. There is no time to lose. Gain control of self. Then retain control by emptying yourself of self. All the thoughts of lust and passion, greed, hatred, envy, and, above all, selfishness, passing through the minds of men and women, generate the 'condition' called hell.

Purgatory and hell are different states. We all must needs pass through a purging, purifying process after leaving earth life. I am still in purgatory. Some day I shall rise above it. The majority who come over here rise above or rather THROUGH purgatory into higher conditions. A minority refuse to relinquish their thoughts and beliefs in the pleasures of sin and the reality of the sense life. They sink by the weight of their own thoughts.No outside power can attract a man against his will. A man sinks or rises through the action of a spiritual law of gravity. He is never safe until he has emptied himself completely. You see how I emphasise this fact. Some of these thoughts came to me whilst I waited in that gloomy forest. Then the angel and my brother returned. They had found him for whom they sought. He would not come away. They had to leave him there. Fear held him. He said his existence was awful, but he was afraid to move lest worse conditions should befall him.” Private Dowding, pp. 32-35

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Yo ho, mon brave! Colorfully put!

If heaven's all rosewater, why shouldn't hell be all fire?

On the other hand, in Paul's view, believers (in Jesus ) 'shall not perish' meaning everyone else will.

Being confident (on the basis of the present available evidence) that the Perish Rate is 100% regardless,
I don't expect to have to (or to have the chance to) rely on any of the escape clauses you mention and imply.

By the way, although as we understand from the OP (and Matthew) that Heaven is a Bonk-Free Zone, do you have any information on whether beer wine and spirits are freely available and of heavenly quality?

Trailblazer said:

Nobody can really know how good heaven will be, but heaven is sure a lot better than hell.
(See what I just posted about hell.)

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LOL!

blü 2 said:

Yo ho, mon brave! Colorfully put!

If heaven's all rosewater, why shouldn't hell be all fire?

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They definitely are opposites, although I think there are states of the soul in between heaven and hell. I mean how just would it be for God to lump all humans into two mutually exclusive categories. We are not that way in this life so why would we suddenly be put into two different categories in the afterlife? No, I think heaven and hell exists along a continuum although some people are closer to one end or another. And I think people can move from hell to heaven over time although nobody ever moves from heaven to hell. There is only progression in the afterlife, no retrogression.

Extremely selfish people who lived only for things of the flesh will be the ones who end up in hell for eternity, since nobody will be able to help those souls... As the quote says “A minority refuse to relinquish their thoughts and beliefs in the pleasures of sin and the reality of the sense life. They sink by the weight of their own thoughts.No outside power can attract a man against his will. A man sinks or rises through the action of a spiritual law of gravity.”

blü 2 said:

On the other hand, in Paul's view, believers (in Jesus ) 'shall not perish' meaning everyone else will.

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Paul can take it where the sun don’t shine, if you know what I mean.

What those Bible verses mean is that those who believed in Jesus will have eternal life, which means nearness to God. No souls will ever perish, but some will be distant from God so they won’t have eternal life, which is a QUALITY of life, not its duration.

blü 2 said:

Being confident (on the basis of the present available evidence) that the Perish Rate is 100% regardless,
I don't expect to have to (or to have the chance to) rely on any of the escape clauses you mention and imply.

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Yeah, I know that view, there is no evidence.I go around this block with all my atheist friends. All I can say is that you will find out after you die and are not dead. THAT will be your evidence.

blü 2 said:

By the way, although as we understand from the OP (and Matthew) that Heaven is a Bonk-Free Zone, do you have any information on whether beer wine and spirits are freely available and of heavenly quality?

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I love the sense of humor that skeptics and atheists have.

No, sorry, there will be no food or drink because there is nothing physical in the spiritual world... Spiritual bodies do not need sustenance because they get their sustenance from God.I cannot say what will happen to those souls who have turned away from God...

Trailblazer said:

how just would it be for God to lump all humans into two mutually exclusive categories. [...] No, I think heaven and hell exists along a continuum although some people are closer to one end or another. And I think people can move from hell to heaven over time although nobody ever moves from heaven to hell. There is only progression in the afterlife, no retrogression.

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That reflects well on your essential kindness.

Trailblazer said:

“A minority refuse to relinquish their thoughts and beliefs in the pleasures of sin and the reality of the sense life. They sink by the weight of their own thoughts.No outside power can attract a man against his will. A man sinks or rises through the action of a spiritual law of gravity.”

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Either that or we're all just dead.

Trailblazer said:

Yeah, I know that view, there is no evidence.I go around this block with all my atheist friends. All I can say is that you will find out after you die and are not dead. THAT will be your evidence.

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I will die not expecting to be surprised ─ and if I am, I'll say to myself, 'Dang me if Trailblazer didn't nail it!'

Trailblazer said:

I love the sense of humor that skeptics and atheists have.

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What, you think I was joking? This is of the utmost importance!

Trailblazer said:

No, sorry, there will be no food or drink because there is nothing physical in the spiritual world... Spiritual bodies do not need sustenance because they get their sustenance from God.

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Miss Grundy, please take a letter: Dear God ─ It has been brought to my attention that ...

I believe there is no sex in Hell.