Will Mankind Survive?

I decided to share a paragraph from a book written by a German Baha’i entitled “the light shineth in darkness”. The paragraph is located in a section of his book entitled “Belief and Unbelief Today”, after which I made some comments.


The reference to the report of the “Club of Rome” is dated in 1972. The question is has the crisis lessened or has it even deepened? As a Baha’i I have faith that God has provided for a peaceful way to disarm the “destructive forces” of mankind. Nevertheless, I expect even greater destruction to ensue before that occurs as a result of what is being reported in the mainstream news of the world. I believe an Old World Order is dying and a New World Order is struggling to be born. In general, on a lesser scale, I think many transitions from old to new have occurred in the world. However, I think if safe to say that today the scale of destruction versus the potential for peace and prosperity is unprecedented.

Lastly, there is a great deal in the aforementioned book I did not comment on. One lingering principle I seem to recall is the fact that it will take more than intellectual endeavors for humankind to work his way out of darkness and into the light! Also, that Baha’u’llah stated that if His Revelation from God was withdrawn humankind would perish.

Unity of Mankind said:

Baha’u’llah stated that if His Revelation from God was withdrawn humankind would perish.

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Now that the Revelation has been given, it cannot be withdrawn.

It can be totally ignored.

We have reached an era where civilization can be destroyed by
Mutually Assured Destruction (nuclear war)
Conventional Global War (China, Russia, US, India, Pakistan, with allies)
Climate Change
Polution

Huston, we have a problem.

Unity of Mankind said:

I decided to share a paragraph from a book written by a German Baha’i entitled “the light shineth in darkness”. The paragraph is located in a section of his book entitled “Belief and Unbelief Today”, after which I made some comments.

“Baha’u’llah’s call to the leaders of his time remained unheeded. None of the rulers addressed by Baha’u’llah was mindful of his warning and counsels. Today we are experiencing the significance of those monitory words. It becomes more and more obvious that we are living in a period of crisis, the most critical phase in the history of mankind and that the future of mankind is threatened as never before by its own destructive forces, that man is on the way to a catastrophe, to self-annihilation. Since the report of the Club of Rome about the situation of mankind has been published and become a bestseller, wider circles of the population are now aware of what eminent scientists and philosophers have been observing for a long time: mankind is on the way to destruction, if it does not come to a fundamental change in consciousness.” (Udo Schaefer, the light shineth in darkness, pp. 12-13)​

The reference to the report of the “Club of Rome” is dated in 1972. The question is has the crisis lessened or has it even deepened? As a Baha’i I have faith that God has provided for a peaceful way to disarm the “destructive forces” of mankind. Nevertheless, I expect even greater destruction to ensue before that occurs as a result of what is being reported in the mainstream news of the world. I believe an Old World Order is dying and a New World Order is struggling to be born. In general, on a lesser scale, I think many transitions from old to new have occurred in the world. However, I think if safe to say that today the scale of destruction versus the potential for peace and prosperity is unprecedented.

Lastly, there is a great deal in the aforementioned book I did not comment on. One lingering principle I seem to recall is the fact that it will take more than intellectual endeavors for humankind to work his way out of darkness and into the light! Also, that Baha’u’llah stated that if His Revelation from God was withdrawn humankind would perish.

Click to expand...

One thing to keep in mind is that its fairly common for humans to perceiving the time they live in as a time of crisis or in a near end of the world state. However something that have changed a lot in the last couple of years is our technology and knowledge about the world in which we live. Meaning that we now have more tools, methods and educated people, capable of gathering information and better information than before. So where a sense of a "destructive force" might have been more localized in the past, it is now global. We know that people that pollute in one part of the world is actively polluting globally and we can measure the effect of that. Which obviously expand and complicate viable solutions to these problems, as we are suddenly talking about problems that are no longer confined to a specific country.

The knowledge of the effect of human pollution and mistreating of nature for our own benefit is not something new, but simply something that haven't been taken very serious until lately, as climate scientists started to report and make people aware of where we were heading and that we ought to take it much more serious, than we used to. For the most of my life, I have been living in a period of time where climate were not really that hot a topic or something that people were all that concerned about. I think most people here on the forum can remember when the whole climate debate started and you had some people (still a few left) that argued that the whole thing were just a scam and nothing to be concerned about. But as more and more data is coming in and things seems to be even worse than first anticipated, we are clearly in a much worse crisis than ever I think. Due to several reasons that earlier humans might not have experienced or might have considered to be have been part of their "crisis". But that we are facing something that we can now see is not easily corrected, that this is not something that science can just magically fix, as it have been assumed for all these years, that "its not so bad, scientist will find a solution", That the effect of the situation we are in affects the climate on the whole Earth and even if we were able, tomorrow to do what the scientists say we ought to do, that things will keep getting worse as the effect have already started, and as long as we can't seem to even do that and even improve above it, it just keeps getting worse.

From Nasa:


The state of animals, both on land and water is not really doing well either. So the amount of problems are quite severe I would say. That the oceans are filled with plastic and how to clean them is probably not that easy either.

And not only that, we have also manage to put ourselves or being "brainwashed" into living and demanding a lifestyle of consumption and endless spending to keep the economy running and avoid things from coming crashing down. So how you are to make a sustainable system, when on one hand you want to save the environment and the other encourage people to consume as much as possible, seems to be two systems that work opposite of each other, and that is not easily changed either, as we are talking about a global economic system, where for the most part money is more important than the well being of Earth.

So putting everything together I would say that humans today are facing a much worse crisis than ever before. And to me as you say, the old world order might be dying, but we ought to help it along to die a bit faster

Necessity is the mother of invention.

Notice that nuclear bombs have been used exactly one time since their invention: to end WWII. No one wants mutually assured destruction.

Sure the world will become desperate from the effects of climate change: species extinction, overcrowding, famine, water shortage, etc. We will reach a critical point, and the pressure will force us to invent solutions to these problems. We might not like these solutions, but we will put up with them.

Unity of Mankind said:

Also, that Baha’u’llah stated that if His Revelation from God was withdrawn humankind would perish.

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Well, wannabe Messiahs don't usually go around saying "here's a message from God, take it or leave it, it won't make any difference" do they?

siti said:

Well, wannabe Messiahs don't usually go around saying "here's a message from God, take it or leave it, it won't make any difference" do they?

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Real Messiahs don't say that either.

dingdao said:

Now that the Revelation has been given, it cannot be withdrawn.

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That's true, as God is not One to change His Mind.

dingdao said:

It can be totally ignored.

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It could have been but thank God it wasn't totally ignored.

dingdao said:

We have reached an era where civilization can be destroyed by
Mutually Assured Destruction (nuclear war)
Conventional Global War (China, Russia, US, India, Pakistan, with allies)
Climate Change
Polution
Huston, we have a problem.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd say we do, if we don't get our act together.

Unity of Mankind said:

I decided to share a paragraph from a book written by a German Baha’i entitled “the light shineth in darkness”. The paragraph is located in a section of his book entitled “Belief and Unbelief Today”, after which I made some comments.

“Baha’u’llah’s call to the leaders of his time remained unheeded. None of the rulers addressed by Baha’u’llah was mindful of his warning and counsels. Today we are experiencing the significance of those monitory words. It becomes more and more obvious that we are living in a period of crisis, the most critical phase in the history of mankind and that the future of mankind is threatened as never before by its own destructive forces, that man is on the way to a catastrophe, to self-annihilation. Since the report of the Club of Rome about the situation of mankind has been published and become a bestseller, wider circles of the population are now aware of what eminent scientists and philosophers have been observing for a long time: mankind is on the way to destruction, if it does not come to a fundamental change in consciousness.” (Udo Schaefer, the light shineth in darkness, pp. 12-13)​

The reference to the report of the “Club of Rome” is dated in 1972. The question is has the crisis lessened or has it even deepened? As a Baha’i I have faith that God has provided for a peaceful way to disarm the “destructive forces” of mankind. Nevertheless, I expect even greater destruction to ensue before that occurs as a result of what is being reported in the mainstream news of the world. I believe an Old World Order is dying and a New World Order is struggling to be born. In general, on a lesser scale, I think many transitions from old to new have occurred in the world. However, I think if safe to say that today the scale of destruction versus the potential for peace and prosperity is unprecedented.

Lastly, there is a great deal in the aforementioned book I did not comment on. One lingering principle I seem to recall is the fact that it will take more than intellectual endeavors for humankind to work his way out of darkness and into the light! Also, that Baha’u’llah stated that if His Revelation from God was withdrawn humankind would perish.

Click to expand...

6billion people will die in my life time

the planet can sustain only 9billion

if I live to 90yrs.....there will be 12billion

the spirit and intellect of Man will gel only a little bit more

Man as a species is terminal

dingdao said:

Now that the Revelation has been given, it cannot be withdrawn.

It can be totally ignored.

We have reached an era where civilization can be destroyed by
Mutually Assured Destruction (nuclear war)
Conventional Global War (China, Russia, US, India, Pakistan, with allies)
Climate Change
Polution

Huston, we have a problem.

Click to expand...

I agree there are several challenges to the survival of mankind but how can they possibly be dealt with in the present climate of disharmony and strife? On the TV program "Hardball" Chris Mathews just said there are now over a thousand hate groups. They are probably emboldened by what is presently going on in American Politics.

Trailblazer said:

Real Messiahs don't say that either.

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I don't suppose they would - so how could we tell the difference?

Nimos said:

One thing to keep in mind is that its fairly common for humans to perceiving the time they live in as a time of crisis or in a near end of the world state. However something that have changed a lot in the last couple of years is our technology and knowledge about the world in which we live. Meaning that we now have more tools, methods and educated people, capable of gathering information and better information than before. So where a sense of a "destructive force" might have been more localized in the past, it is now global. We know that people that pollute in one part of the world is actively polluting globally and we can measure the effect of that. Which obviously expand and complicate viable solutions to these problems, as we are suddenly talking about problems that are no longer confined to a specific country.

The knowledge of the effect of human pollution and mistreating of nature for our own benefit is not something new, but simply something that haven't been taken very serious until lately, as climate scientists started to report and make people aware of where we were heading and that we ought to take it much more serious, than we used to. For the most of my life, I have been living in a period of time where climate were not really that hot a topic or something that people were all that concerned about. I think most people here on the forum can remember when the whole climate debate started and you had some people (still a few left) that argued that the whole thing were just a scam and nothing to be concerned about. But as more and more data is coming in and things seems to be even worse than first anticipated, we are clearly in a much worse crisis than ever I think. Due to several reasons that earlier humans might not have experienced or might have considered to be have been part of their "crisis". But that we are facing something that we can now see is not easily corrected, that this is not something that science can just magically fix, as it have been assumed for all these years, that "its not so bad, scientist will find a solution", That the effect of the situation we are in affects the climate on the whole Earth and even if we were able, tomorrow to do what the scientists say we ought to do, that things will keep getting worse as the effect have already started, and as long as we can't seem to even do that and even improve above it, it just keeps getting worse.

From Nasa:

The state of animals, both on land and water is not really doing well either. So the amount of problems are quite severe I would say. That the oceans are filled with plastic and how to clean them is probably not that easy either.

And not only that, we have also manage to put ourselves or being "brainwashed" into living and demanding a lifestyle of consumption and endless spending to keep the economy running and avoid things from coming crashing down. So how you are to make a sustainable system, when on one hand you want to save the environment and the other encourage people to consume as much as possible, seems to be two systems that work opposite of each other, and that is not easily changed either, as we are talking about a global economic system, where for the most part money is more important than the well being of Earth.

So putting everything together I would say that humans today are facing a much worse crisis than ever before. And to me as you say, the old world order might be dying, but we ought to help it along to die a bit faster

Click to expand...

You are quite detailed and appear to have covered a lot of bases. You also pointed out a dangerous conflict when you wrote the following: "So how you are to make a sustainable system, when on one hand you want to save the environment and the other encourage people to consume as much as possible, seems to be two systems that work opposite of each other, and that is not easily changed either, as we are talking about a global economic system, where for the most part money is more important than the well being of Earth.
So how you are to make a sustainable system, when on one hand you want to save the environment and the other encourage people to consume as much as possible, seems to be two systems that work opposite of each other, and that is not easily changed either, as we are talking about a global economic system, where for the most part money is more important than the well being of Earth."

In part you wrote " . . . where for the most part money is more important than the well being of Earth." So would it be safe to say there is no unified set of values upon which there is universal agreement? Whereas religion used to be a safe haven for commonly held values I would say that is no longer true. Besides that, even within the same religions there are divisions and disagreements. Looking back that was reason enough for me to investigate the Baha'i Faith, especially since it recognizes the divine origin of all past religions. A paramount guiding principle in the Baha'i Faith is the oneness of God, the oneness of religion and the oneness of mankind. Just as science involves a process so does religion, except its process is determined by God through Messengers of God sent in every age. I believe the Messenger for the present age is Baha'u'llah, who established the Baha'i Faith.

siti said:

I don't suppose they would - so how could we tell the difference?

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By their fruits you shall know them, as Jesus said.

Matthew 7:15-20 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Fruits: the pleasant or successful result of work or actions: FRUIT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

I thought deeply about the title question for about 30 seconds and I have decided that far from surviving "mankind" is, in fact, already extinct - "he" was rendered anachronistic by "humankind"...and even s/he (humankind) will soon be superseded by "personkind" (which will include persons other than humans - and I don't mean of the supernatural variety...I mean persons like the one in my avatar).

Trailblazer said:

By their fruits you shall know them, as Jesus said.

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Well, wannabe Messiahs don't usually go around telling everyone that they too could very well be "false prophets" - do they? If it walks like a fruitcake, and talks like a fruitcake...

siti said:

I thought deeply about the title question for about 30 seconds and I have decided that far from surviving "mankind" is, in fact, already extinct - "he" was rendered anachronistic by "humankind"...and even s/he (humankind) will soon be superseded by "personkind" (which will include persons other than humans - and I don't mean of the supernatural variety...I mean persons like the one in my avatar).

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How will animals supersede humans?

siti said:

Well, wannabe Messiahs don't usually go around telling everyone that they too could very well be "false prophets" - do they? If it walks like a fruitcake, and talks like a fruitcake...

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It is not what they SAY, it is what they write and do....
Of course, how people interpret their lives and writings is subjective.

One person's fruitcake is another person's Messiah.

I'm not talking about animals - I'm talking about ideas - particularly our man-centric, human-centric ideas about which kinds of living organisms are worth "saving". I am saying that "saving" "mankind" is an outmoded religious notion based on the ideas of some rather ancient male human persons (usually with long beards and flowing robes) who were far too focussed on their own male human egos and imagined themselves of far more surpassing value than any of "God's" other creations. I can hardly imagine a false prophet prophesying a falser false prophecy than that.

Trailblazer said:

One person's fruitcake is another person's Messiah.

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Crumbs! For once we agree! We should celebrate with tea and messiah - oops - I mean fruitcake.

Trailblazer said:

it is what they write

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Jesus didn't write anything - did he?

siti said:

I'm not talking about animals - I'm talking about ideas - particularly our man-centric, human-centric ideas about which kinds of living organisms are worth "saving". I am saying that "saving" "mankind" is an outmoded religious notion based on the ideas of some rather ancient male human persons (usually with long beards and flowing robes) who were far too focussed on their own male human egos and imagined themselves of far more surpassing value than any of "God's" other creations. I can hardly imagine a false prophet prophesying a falser false prophecy than that.

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I am all for saving the animals before the humans. The problem as I see it with the Abrahamic religions is that they are too human-centered..... but what do I know, I am just a silly Baha'i who does not go along with everything I am supposed to believe. Animals is where I draw the line. If God created animals why doesn't He care about their suffering and death? Nuff said.