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Do Atheists believe in free-will?

Booko

Deviled Hen
SPLogan said:
Do Atheists believe in free-will?
Why or why not?

Uh, when I was an athiest, certainly I did believe in free will.

In the absence of some postulated Great-Omnipotent-Being, I don't know how one can believe in anything but free will. :confused:

But maybe someone else will explain how that's possible.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
Atheists are under no obligation to believe one way or the other or to even consider the issue. Questions that start with "Do atheists believe in..." and don't end with "...God/s?" have no objective answer.

I personally think of free-will as a emotional consequence of our evolutionary development. Our complex biochemical processes that provide us with pattern detecting capabilities also instill in us the feeling that we acted according to our 'will' instead of, as I currently see it, according to our programming both genetic and environmental.
 

Random

Well-Known Member
An Atheist who believes in cosmic or genetic determinism might not believe in freewill. An atheist is as entitled to believe freewill is an illusion as a theist or a believer of any sort. However, obviously if there is no freewill then the atheist could not make the decision to believe or not believe in freewill. ;)

If one must temper Atheism with humanism or naturalism to give it some depth, as one generally must, then most atheistic naturalists and humanists will naturally and humanely affirm freewill as a fundamental tenant of our existence, because as Booko rightly pointed out, in the absence of God there is little else, no rational basis to deny it and no ultimate divine authority to take it away. Again though, that is unless you consider the universe to be deterministic, in which case you only think you make choices but all your choices are predetermined by the circumstances in which they are made.

Conversely, most reputable theologians would posit the inverse argument, that authentic freewill can only be actualized in humans with God and by God, but that is a deeper debate which atheists do not generally address themselves to or try to refute.
 

SPLogan

Member
Booko said:
In the absence of some postulated Great-Omnipotent-Being, I don't know how one can believe in anything but free will. :confused:
But maybe someone else will explain how that's possible.

What I was thinking when I asked the question is- on one hand, it seems like free-will is fundamental to atheism. On the other hand, the scientific principle of cause and effect is widely accepted by atheists.

So if every action or entity has a cause or origin, then even ideas and volition must be the effect of a particular cause. If that is true, one's will is not really free; it is bound by the forces of nature. In other words, human will is equally as free as that of inanimate objects moving through outer-space (under that line of reasoning). They will not change course unless they are made to do so by something outside of themselves.

One could simply not believe in the principal of cause and effect, or...
Maybe I'm missing something.
 

Random

Well-Known Member
SPLogan said:
What I was thinking when I asked the question is- on one hand, it seems like free-will is fundamental to atheism. On the other hand, the scientific principle of cause and effect is widely accepted by atheists.

So if every action or entity has a cause or origin, then even ideas and volition must be the effect of a particular cause. If that is true, one's will is not really free; it is bound by the forces of nature. In other words, human will is equally as free as that of inanimate objects moving through outer-space (under that line of reasoning). They will not change course unless they are made to do so by something outside of themselves.

One could simply not believe in the principal of cause and effect, or...
Maybe I'm missing something.

You're missing "compatibalism", which is the doctrine that there can be a cause-and-effect structure to everything experiential yet this can be and is in harmony with the divergent variables of freewill activity.
 

SPLogan

Member
Godlike said:
You're missing "compatibalism", which is the doctrine that there can be a cause-and-effect structure to everything experiential yet this can be and is in harmony with the divergent variables of freewill activity.
So this doctrine, is belief in a supernatural force or forces that effect volition?
Hmm... that doesn't make sense, because even a supernatural "variable" (force) is a force none-the-less.
Even if the force is "in harmony with" human volition, it still binds the volition of each individual to an entity outside of him/her self, even if that outside entity is free.

Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
SPLogan said:
Do Atheists believe in free-will?
Why or why not?

Some do and some don't. You'll have to examine the different theories of psychology to get the details.
 

lamplighter

Almighty Tallest
I would say a large percentage of secularists view free will as the most probable, although I believe your free will is greatly effected by knowledge and any lack there of.
 

IanAlmighty

Lurking Existentialist
It is up to each person to decide what they choose to believe in.
Free will, like other things, is believed in different extremities, there is no black and white. I believe there are many things which affect us, causing a great pain in determining whether we really ever make decisions without someone else's influence.

Free will is a must to believe in, because without the simple belief in it, no one would ever take responsibility for their own actions.
 
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nutshell

Well-Known Member
IanAlmighty said:
It is up to each person to decide what they choose to believe in.
Free will, like other things, is believed in different extremities, there is no black and white. I believe there are many things which affect us, causing a great pain in determining whether we really ever make decisions without someone else's influence.

Free will is a must to believe in, because without the simple belief in it, no one would ever take responsibility for their own actions.

I expect the behaviorists would disagree with you.
 

BucephalusBB

ABACABB
IanAlmighty said:
Free will is a must to believe in, because without the simple belief in it, no one would ever take responsibility for their own actions.

Wrong. Personally I don't believe in Free will, yet I do feel free will.

When I raise my arm because I want to, I do have the feeling of free will. Yet I also think that that it is all purelly reflected on all other events.

In fact, I think that right now some people would want to raise their arm just to see that they are right :D

On the side note, if I kick you between the legs, you'll kick me back, If I do so again, you would do it harder.. It wouldn't take long before I decide it's better to stop kicking you :rolleyes:
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
SPLogan said:
What I was thinking when I asked the question is- on one hand, it seems like free-will is fundamental to atheism. On the other hand, the scientific principle of cause and effect is widely accepted by atheists.

So if every action or entity has a cause or origin, then even ideas and volition must be the effect of a particular cause. If that is true, one's will is not really free; it is bound by the forces of nature. In other words, human will is equally as free as that of inanimate objects moving through outer-space (under that line of reasoning). They will not change course unless they are made to do so by something outside of themselves.

One could simply not believe in the principal of cause and effect, or...
Maybe I'm missing something.

I'm curious why you think free will is fundamental to atheism? It seems to me that belief in free will is no more fundamental to atheism than is belief that organges contain vitamin C. So, could you explain to me please how belief in free will is fundamental to atheism?
 

SPLogan

Member
Sunstone said:
I'm curious why you think free will is fundamental to atheism? It seems to me that belief in free will is no more fundamental to atheism than is belief that organges contain vitamin C. So, could you explain to me please how belief in free will is fundamental to atheism?
Perhaps you're right.
I am very likely imposing my biases onto my understanding of Atheism.

It seems like the subject of free will is pretty perplexing from any theological perspective.

Of course I'm free! See? I'm typing whatever I feel like typing here! Ha! But how is this possible? I know that this typing is really the logical effect of a long string of causes. In fact, even my speculation on this subject it the result of a lot of causes out of my control. Isn't it? Where does freedom enter into this? I think I'm free, but how can I think so? :areyoucra
 

Revasser

Terrible Dancer
I think Jaiket was right. Asking any question of "atheists" that is not "do you believe in God/s?" will have no particular answer that applies to "atheists."

Atheists are not a coherent group. "Atheism" describes a position they hold on a single idea and nothing more. It really tells you nothing and certainly presribes nothing about what a person does believe in.

For myself, I believe free will is a good thing to believe in.
 

Ryan2065

Well-Known Member
I believe in free will to a point...

If there were no laws then there would be many more crimes against other people (note not like tax evasion) so this leads me to believe that to a point there is some choice in the actions people do make.

Kinda like the nature vs nurture debate... A little of both =)
 

Kungfuzed

Student Nurse
Ryan2065 said:
I believe in free will to a point...

If there were no laws then there would be many more crimes against other people (note not like tax evasion) so this leads me to believe that to a point there is some choice in the actions people do make.

Kinda like the nature vs nurture debate... A little of both =)

From what I've learned about naturalism, the purpose of laws and law enforcement are to help keep in check the things that cause us to do bad things, rather than just punishing people for making bad choices. I'm really bad with words so here's a link that describes it better: http://www.naturalism.org/conseque.htm
"Punishment: Since the retributive justification for punishment is based largely on the notion that behavior is originated by a causally autonomous self, the motive to impose such punishment may diminish once it is seen that such a self does not exist. In particular, support may drop for punitive measures such as the death penalty or prison sentences without rehabilitative amenities. More attention will be paid to the conditions which create crime, and to approaches that redeem offenders instead of further brutalizing them."
 
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