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I'll just leave this here.

Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
ImmortalFlame said:
You do realize that there is more than one democratic socialist country in the world, right?

http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/democratic-socialist-countries/

Also, the current problems in Venezuela are less to do with social democratic policies and more to do with the legitimacy of Maduro's election and the alleged crimes committed by his government.
Click to expand...

Fake news.

Well maybe not but lets take one country listed...

Sweden...
The country is in fact very pro capitalism, but does redistribution through taxes.

Is Sweden Socialist? No, but... | Jon Henschen

Opps...
Maybe a different country?

Brazil?

Brazil's newly inaugurated President Jair Bolsonaro said on Tuesday his election had freed the country from "socialism and political correctness," and he vowed to tackle corruption, crime and economic mismanagement in Latin America's largest nation.
Bolsonaro: Brazil has been 'liberated from socialism, political correctness'

I suppose the site needs to update that one.

How about some of the other countries?

Those who claim that Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Iceland, and Finland, have a socialist economy, also have a misunderstanding of socialism. This misconception must be dispelled, in order to better comprehend our present international political climate and specifically the world we must strive to achieve. The Nordic countries don’t represent the better world that is possible, because they aren’t socialist.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/17/the-nordic-countries-arent-socialist/

Hmm... not doing so hot.

I get it, what is actually going on is to redefine Democratic Socialist as Capitalist countries which support social programs. Might as well toss the US in there as well. No need to actually make any changes other than the definition of course.

Yay capitalism. Capitalism has done so great that countries can actually afford some of these social programs. Socialist Democrats don't really have to do anything other than to get people to agree to redefine socialism.


 
Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Father Heathen said:
The vice versa could just as easily be said.
Click to expand...

I'm sure, but polls show that the left has moved further away from the center into more extremist positions. While the right has also moved further away from the center, it has significantly less extremist views.

Pew Research Center Study Shows That Democrats Have Shifted To The Extreme Left | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

The Far Right Represents Only 6% of U.S. Citizens, Study Says

Facts and data.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Komori said:
They 100% are. He's right. Socialism as defined by Marx is worker ownership of the means of production. It's not merely when the government does some stuff.
Click to expand...
Quite correct. I am not a socialist, I'm more of a "liberal democrat." I believe in capitalism, but I believe that capitalism can be, and ought to be, bound by rules for the benefit of all. Not rules that say "thou shalt," so much as "thou shalt not..."

At the same time, I have no difficulty with the notion of government working to ensure the health, safety and survivability of all persons. These are certainly "social" endeavours, but are not "socialism."
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Enoch07 said:
Bernie wants a socialist state.

Socialist states become dictatorships when the become corrupted. Which they inevitable will, its human nature.
Click to expand...

You are assuming all socialist states become corrupt. And you are making a black and white fallacy. There are all shades of grey in between. Implementing some policies that are socialist in nature does not require becoming totally socialist. I'm not defending Bernie per say....
 
Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Milton Platt said:
You are assuming all socialist states become corrupt. And you are making a black and white fallacy. There are all shades of grey in between. Implementing some policies that are socialist in nature does not require becoming totally socialist. I'm not defending Bernie per say....
Click to expand...


I am not assuming anything.

Other than human nature will not change, it has not changed very much through the ages.

I am using scientific method though.

I look at how many times it's been attempted vs how many times it has failed/succeded.

108 failures out of 110 attempts is a 98.2% rate of failure.

Any reasonable person would conclude that a 98% rate of failure is just not acceptable.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Enoch07 said:
I am not assuming anything.

Other than human nature will not change, it has not changed very much through the ages.

I am using scientific method though.

I look at how many times it's been attempted vs how many times it has failed/succeded.

108 failures out of 110 attempts is a 98.2% rate of failure.

Any reasonable person would conclude that a 98% rate of failure is just not acceptable.
Click to expand...

Many countries use various levels of socialistic policies. It isn't an all or nothing situation.
To be clear, although I'm a little to the left, I'm not a socialist.
 
Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Milton Platt said:
Many countries use various levels of socialistic policies. It isn't an all or nothing situation.
To be clear, although I'm a little to the left, I'm not a socialist.
Click to expand...

This had been reiterated 100 times in this thread.

A capitalist economy that usedla social programs is not a socialist country.

Socialist econmies means the state owns the means of production.

Perhaps if you stopped labeling Capitalist countries as socialist to try and dupe people into socialism you would have so much push back. But then again if you don't try to disguise it history bites the idea in the butt. Regardless socialism sucks.
 
tytlyf

tytlyf

Not Religious
Enoch07 said:
A capitalist economy that uses social programs is not a socialist country.
Click to expand...
It's not a capitalist country either. America is a mixture of both

Socialist econmies means the state owns the means of production.
Click to expand...
That can happen in a mixed economy too. No one is advocating that all private corporations be turned over to the govt.
Perhaps if you stopped labeling Capitalist countries as socialist to try and dupe people into socialism you would have so much push back. But then again if you don't try to disguise it history bites the idea in the butt. Regardless socialism sucks.
Click to expand...
You're not a capitalist and America is not a capitalist economy. America is a mixed economy of capitalist and socialist aspects.
 
Enoch07

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
tytlyf said:
It's not a capitalist country either. America is a mixture of both
Click to expand...

The U.S. is predominantly Capitalist. We have have some social programs sure.

tytlyf said:
That can happen in a mixed economy too. No one is advocating that all private corporations be turned over to the govt.
Click to expand...

Well there are, actual communist that is. But yes socialism can lead to the govt seizing the means of production, it is a real possibility.
 
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