The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Is it true that "all canines are dogs"?
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Not All Men Are Like That?
- Thread starter The Reverend Bob
- Start date
No it is not. Is this a science quiz?
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No Bob.
You obviously took no notice of the many women who thought, said or wrote that 'Not all men are like that'.
To accuse all men of sexism is it's own special brand of bigotry.
Robbers? Not all men..........
Fraudsters? Not all men....
Bigots? Not all men......
Violence? Not all men.....
You see? You cannot criticise half of the human race over any one bad thing. It's a special kind of bigoted injustice, defamation, libel and slander, all in one.
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oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Errr?........ Wot?.........
Surely, you mean that the challenge for all people is to...... whatever....
But where I live many of the leaders are women, in our businesses, on our town and city councils, on our county councils and in Parliament. Our Lords have a high % of women leaders as well.
On the side, most folks I know are neither bullies, slave drivers nor true leaders, they're just ordinary citizens with average lives, partnerships, families 'n' all.........
Well if you lead with the premise that “men are insert detrimental thing here” then the knee jerk response will inevitably be “not all men” which is a fair response.
That said, there is something to be said of the many men assuming that a particular discussion of detrimental societal traits (some) men posses as being lobbied towards men in a general sense and then use the “not all men” routine to shut down discussion.
It is indeed a knee jerk reaction and one that seemingly crops up anytime anyone so much as looks askew at detrimental behaviour a man may demonstrate. Hmm.
So I do agree that this is a strategy. Though I don’t agree that the solution is to generalise men in response. They’re pretty sensitive people, it seems. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.)
Discussion about topics such as I don’t know, societal attitudes towards masculinity or whatever should not demonise or generalise men. But should include them as they are part of the solution. Unfortunately it seems both sides just react and end up misunderstanding a point or simply scream past each other or get overly defensive.
That said, there is something to be said of the many men assuming that a particular discussion of detrimental societal traits (some) men posses as being lobbied towards men in a general sense and then use the “not all men” routine to shut down discussion.
It is indeed a knee jerk reaction and one that seemingly crops up anytime anyone so much as looks askew at detrimental behaviour a man may demonstrate. Hmm.
So I do agree that this is a strategy. Though I don’t agree that the solution is to generalise men in response. They’re pretty sensitive people, it seems. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.)
Discussion about topics such as I don’t know, societal attitudes towards masculinity or whatever should not demonise or generalise men. But should include them as they are part of the solution. Unfortunately it seems both sides just react and end up misunderstanding a point or simply scream past each other or get overly defensive.
PureX
Veteran Member
It's basically a meaningless interjection, as not all men are like all other men except that they are literally being defined as "men". And we all know this, or should know it, already. So I agree that when such an interjection is used, it is often being used to sidetrack a conversation about negative male behaviors.
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Is there a difference between "dog" and "canine"?
I know several men that are not like that, not sexist, not macho, not one of the boys, not egotesticle (correct spelling).
I think that in my lifetime attitudes have changed, many men are (believe it or not) working to close the gender gap, some have succeeded... Unfortunately, misogyny can still crawl up where its not wanted. Things are not yet truly equal but its getting there.
The difference is that the former is a subset of the latter. Is there a point in our midst?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Ive known men who are creepy pervs, sexually aggressive, rapists, child molestors, and also as well none of the above. Clearly they are not all " are like that," or even alike.
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Subset is right. Men are a subset of biological males. The concepts of "Manhood" "Masculinity" and "Men" are social constructs whereas "Male" defines the biological sex of the individual. To say that "Not all biological males are like that" is correct (but unnecessary) because we know not all biological males are masculine, or were socialized as men and not all biological males view themselves as men but identify as women. All men are "like that" because they are living out the social construct of what our cultures and societies tell us what being a "man" is about.
Male defines the gender of an organism. This is not exclusive to humans or even the animalia kingdom.
Men is a subset of male humans, the adult post-pubescent male of the species.
None of what I wrote above has anything to do with social constructs.
Not all men say "Not all men are like that.".
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Even considering the psycho-sexual effects of testosterone, I wonder how much of that is male behaviors or symptoms of expected behaviors of men? Anger, for example, is one of the few socially acceptable emotions for men to display, which is terribly unhealthy in so many ways on so many levels. Men get live with their masculinity being questioned, challenged, and disqualified if he's gay. If he's effeminate he just gets crapped on.
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Our aggression doesn't have to manifest itself in overtly violent ways, for example : when men "mansplain" men are being "like that".
Nor do all men say "Not all men say 'not all men are like that.'"
Not all men are even men.....I'm about half a man at my best these days.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Except for the ones who aren't. And I've known many men who are nothing that society tells them to be. Some of them, not transgender in any way, are more girly than most girls. I've known several who don't act overly or particularly in either a masculine or feminine way.
In the social sciences, there are no 100%s. It just doesnt happen. When people are involved, regardless of what is going in, there is always at least that one person who is fundamentally different in some way from the rest. It could be a gene, an illness, or a number of things that prevent 100%. So its just basic psychology, sociology, and anthropology to know that not all men are like that.
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
And how did you know it wasn't formerly a "canine"?