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Who will get to heaven?

Firemorphic

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
Vinayaka said:
That moksha and heaven aren;t the same thing, in my view.
Moksha ... Moksha in Hinduism: Definition & Overview - Video & Lesson Transcript | Study.com

Heaven ...
a place regarded in various religions as the abode of God (or the gods) and the angels, and of the good after death, often traditionally depicted as being above the sky.
Click to expand...

Well pretty much every religion that has an afterlife describes in some symbolic way, it's hard to really asses your comment as it's so vague. The word "Heaven" is just an English word too, probably most used by Christians.

Judaism has Olam Ha-Ba but gives very vague notions about it. Christianity is too broad to sum up.
However at least from me to you, in Islam we believe in the concept of Jannah which is supreme bliss reached upon perfection (Ihsan) of the Soul (Rūḥ, or Atman). It's symbolized in a few ways (most notably "Gardens beneath which rivers flow") but is never spoken of in metaphysical terms, only metaphors of supreme bliss.

I don't really see anything that categorically contradicts.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
shunyadragon said:
This has been obvious sense I have corresponded on this site, and of course we disagree.
Regardless of what you believe the fallible human remains the problem.
Click to expand...
We CAN agree in that "the fallible human remains the problem"
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
Wow that was lengthy

Your original post was:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg - and you beg the question why no?

Assuming Mr. Swedenborg is correct that people will go to heaven regardless what their religion they may have.
What do you think was the message Jesus Christ spoke about?

View attachment 29313

Did Mr Swedenborg just countered Jesus like "You don't need Jesus, you can have Mohammad, you can have Vishnu, you can have Buddha, you can have Satan for your religion as long as you live good lives. Religion isn't important in reaching heaven."

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Every religion leads to heaven as long as people live good lives?
What did Jesus said and should we disregard these?
Mr. Emanuel Swedenborg must know something Jesus doesn't?
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Well, you finally responded to my op.
I thank you for the thoughtful response, and appreciate it.
We can start a discussion now.

Such as: what is Jesus? What is Mohammed? What is Vishnu?
What is Satan? What is religion? And more importantly, what does the Lord think about religion? Oh, and what is the Lord?

Find the answers to these questions, and you will have seen the light.

Any thoughts? Or answers?
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Firemorphic said:
Well pretty much every religion that has an afterlife describes in some symbolic way, it's hard to really asses your comment as it's so vague. The word "Heaven" is just an English word too, probably most used by Christians.

Judaism has Olam Ha-Ba but gives very vague notions about it. Christianity is too broad to sum up.
However at least from me to you, in Islam we believe in the concept of Jannah which is supreme bliss reached upon perfection (Ihsan) of the Soul (Rūḥ, or Atman). It's symbolized in a few ways (most notably "Gardens beneath which rivers flow") but is never spoken of in metaphysical terms, only metaphors of supreme bliss.

I don't really see anything that categorically contradicts.
Click to expand...

Metaphors may be the best way for us humans to understand such things.
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
Prestor John said:
Adam and Eve were selected from the choicest of God's children to be the Patriarch and Matriarch of the human family.

Neither Adam nor Eve ever betrayed God.

This idea that Adam and Eve did something wicked when they partook the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is very new, not agreed upon by the whole of Judeo-Christian religions and erroneous according to various books of scripture.

Adam and Eve partaking of the fruit had always been a crucial component of God's plan for His children because it caused them to enter into mortality, where their testing and eternal progression would continue.

We are all destined to become like God and spending time in mortality progresses us toward that goal by giving us experience with having a Knowledge of Good and Evil, just as God Himself said, "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil" (Genesis 3:22) (Bold, italics and underline added)

Cain, on the other hand, openly rejected the greater counsel from God, hearkened to the voice of Satan by forming a covenant with him, murdered his brother and lied to God.

No. It is a false basis.

No, the exact opposite is true. It is by faith that we are saved. It is faith, not ignorance, that is our best protection.

No one is saved in ignorance.

In order for any creature to be saved from sin and death, they must come to know the Lord Jesus Christ and what He has done for them.

This knowledge can come to them in mortality or afterwards in the spirit world, but it must happen before they receive salvation.

It is always better for the individual to come to this knowledge earlier rather than later, because it gives them more opportunities to exercise their faith and grow spiritually.

We all will die one day. It is the great equalizer. However, we all will leave this world at different levels of spiritual progression.

The knowledge of God and His Christ and experience we gain by using that knowledge will come with us to the next world and the more we possess the better off we will be.

We should be using this time to come to Christ, repent of our sins (which are slowing us down) and do good continually.
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I’ll try to pose a few of my questions.

What did Cain do? Genesis 4:3 tells us. “Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering to the Lord”. This is the only information we have regarding what Cain did that displeased the Lord. We see no counsel from the Lord previous to this, indicating that such an act would displease the Lord. Further down, once Cain kills Abel, we note that the Lord curses and banishes Cain from the ground. This is it? Also, Cain worries that someone may try to kill him, but the Lord promises to protect him for life. And we see he has a fruitful long life, even gets to found his own city and name it!! Surely not the kind of punishment so many people in the US demand for others who steal a loaf of bread when they’re hungry or any number of menial crimes. My point of all this, being, that I see much more in those few early verses of Genesis 4.

Now I’ll get to a tougher one. How can a person be saved by faith? What does that look like? And what exactly is faith? And why can’t someone be saved in ignorance? But then these particular questions demand a definition of ‘saved’. What is that exactly?

You said:
“This knowledge can come to them in mortality or afterwards in the spirit world, but it must happen before they receive salvation.

It is always better for the individual to come to this knowledge earlier rather than later, because it gives them more opportunities to exercise their faith and grow spiritually.”

My engineering brain struggles with this. You say the knowledge can come in the spirit world. I have no problem with that. My problem comes in the second sentence. You say it’s always better to come earlier rather than later. You underlined and made bold the ‘always’. This seems to be illogical, since the spirit world exists in eternity. Mathematically, our time on earth is zero compared to eternity. Whether we live 7 years or 77, dividing by infinity is zero for both of them. So, why would there be a benefit to come to a certain knowledge earlier or even at all, in this world, considering we have eternity to obtain the knowledge? (Per your first sentence)

I hope I didn’t overwhelm you with so many questions. Answer whatever you like. I appreciate any thoughts given
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Gerry said:
Such as: what is Jesus? What is Mohammed? What is Vishnu?
What is Satan? What is religion? And more importantly, what does the Lord think about religion? Oh, and what is the Lord?

Find the answers to these questions, and you will have seen the light.

Any thoughts? Or answers?
Click to expand...

With regards to the bio of the founders of the different religions, please refer to other external sources - I'm sure you could answer your "what is ...." questions

images


I want to focus on the dead Lutheran theologian who quoted:

The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg - and you beg the question why no?

Leading good lives does not give you a free ticket to go to heaven - that is according to the Bible not from me.
Even Christians like Mr. Swedenborg might fail to reach heaven on Judgement Day based on the Bible.

These words were spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 7:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name

and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

7MEF.gif


So would people "prophesying in the name of Jesus" qualifies them to enter the kingdom of heaven?
According to Jesus - it is not good enough.

How about exorcist casting out demons from possessed people? Surely that is the sign and the credible evidence that God is with them - right? Surely they would not be able to cast out demons or perform miracles if they are not holy and sanctioned by God, right?
Wrong - according to Jesus, it is not good enough.

From the Bible, not from me or from Mr. Emanuel Swedenborg

But who will get to heaven, according to Jesus Christ?
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
 
Jeremiah Ames

Jeremiah Ames

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
With regards to the bio of the founders of the different religions, please refer to other external sources - I'm sure you could answer your "what is ...." questions

images


I want to focus on the dead Lutheran theologian who quoted:

The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg - and you beg the question why no?

Leading good lives does not give you a free ticket to go to heaven - that is according to the Bible not from me.
Even Christians like Mr. Swedenborg might fail to reach heaven on Judgement Day based on the Bible.

These words were spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 7:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name

and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’

Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

7MEF.gif


So would people "prophesying in the name of Jesus" qualifies them to enter the kingdom of heaven?
According to Jesus - it is not good enough.

How about exorcist casting out demons from possessed people? Surely that is the sign and the credible evidence that God is with them - right? Surely they would not be able to cast out demons or perform miracles if they are not holy and sanctioned by God, right?
Wrong - according to Jesus, it is not good enough.

From the Bible, not from me or from Mr. Emanuel Swedenborg

But who will get to heaven, according to Jesus Christ?
but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm sure I could answer those questions.
Evidently, you cannot.

I think I will let this conversation die.
It's becoming apparent that you have no interest in a discussion.

Someone one said:
A person who knows everything has nothing to learn.
 
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