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I just contacted Boys to men Mentoring and told them this:

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I would still like a male-only youth organization with the term "BOY" in its namesake.

The Boy Scouts were formed in England in 1910 and was a male-only youth organization
for damn near 100 years as it still should be even now and forever more.

Removing a masculine term from the title of a male-only organization, product or service
only fortifies the false notion that the male sex himself or any term noting him is TOXIC.


I would like something called Golden Boys of the American Republic. G-BOAR.

This would be expressly male-only and also fortify the notion that America is indeed a republic.

It would be non-faith-based and embrace the Constitutional principles of Our Founding Fathers.
It would include respecting separation of church and state and respecting individual religious freedoms.
It would be non-homophobic as matter of social principles and morals as well.

Adult leaders would be rigorously screened for any criminal, mental illness, substance or sex abuse history. They would be non-smokers and non-drinkers: clean and wholesome.

I don't want the word MALE or any masculine term deemed pejorative or a swear word.

Being born with a penis, testicles, and a scrotum is not a failing or a curse but a GOOD creation of nature (or God if you believe in God) on equal footing with the female sex but of distinctive identity, societal role, familial role and natural function. Society has failed boys and men miserably.

Maybe just Boys of the American Republic: BOAR.

A male hog with big tusks might be its mascot.
Why do you believe that?
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
Why do you believe that?

Because if you Google "boys organizations", you will find the word GIRL many more times than you will find the term BOY when a site with a list of youth organizations shows up. Why does the term BOY and other masculine terms tend to be commercially censored these days? What else is there to believe for the reason of using masculine terms with great discretion? Are people and businesses afraid of lawsuits arising out of using male-specific terms in advertising? Nobody seems to be suing "American Heritage Girls" for using a feminine term in its title or Girl Scouts for denying male membership.

Boys are mistreated when it comes to children's products on the market too. Mattel toys has or had a line of products designated as the "American Girl" brand. Apparently they don't feel the need to have any line of products named "American Boy" with masculine-specific themes as detectives, spies, war, puppy dogs, bulldozers, cowboys, Indians, guns, motorcycles, boating, tree houses, carpentry, hunting, big macho trucks and football.

The Boy Scouts did once have an official magazine titled American Boy. With the inclusion of damsels, will it now be called American Coed?
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Because if you Google "boys organizations", you will find the word GIRL many more times than you will find the term BOY when a site with a list of youth organizations shows up. Why does the term BOY and other masculine terms tend to be commercially censored these days? What else is there to believe for the reason of using masculine terms with great discretion? Are people and businesses afraid of lawsuits arising out of using male-specific terms in advertising? Nobody seems to be suing "American Heritage Girls" for using a feminine term in its title or Girl Scouts for denying male membership.
You seem awfully hung up on terms and old stereotypes about masculinity and femininity. Men and women have always and will always have some mix of what you consider "masculine" or "feminine" qualities. I don't know why you feel it's so important for men and women to fit into neat little stereotypical boxes of "masculine" or "feminine." Who cares? Everybody is different and unique.

I grew up playing with He-Man action figures and Tonka Trucks that I played with in the dirt in my backyard.I wasn't into playing with baby dolls. I am now what you would probably consider a "feminine" woman. What does that make me, in your eyes?

Boys are mistreated when it comes to children's products on the market too. Mattel toys has or had a line of products designated as the "American Girl" brand. Apparently they don't feel the need to have any line of products named "American Boy" with masculine-specific themes as detectives, spies, war, puppy dogs, bulldozers, cowboys, Indians, guns, motorcycles, boating, tree houses, carpentry, hunting, big macho trucks and football.

Boys have all that ... They've got G.I. Joe, Superman, Spiderman, Thor, He-Man, Lego, Iron Man, Tonka Trucks, Power Rangers, Captain America, Hot Wheels, the Incredible Hulk, Transformers, Nerf guns, water guns, bow and arrows sets, football, every kind of video game imaginable, etc., etc., etc. Of course, girls can play with all of these things as well, like I did.

The Boy Scouts did once have an official magazine titled American Boy. With the inclusion of damsels, will it now be called American Coed?
I guess I don't see what the big deal is.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
You seem awfully hung up on terms and old stereotypes about masculinity and femininity. Men and women have always and will always have some mix of what you consider "masculine" or "feminine" qualities. I don't know why you feel it's so important for men and women to fit into neat little stereotypical boxes of "masculine" or "feminine." Who cares? Everybody is different and unique.

I grew up playing with He-Man action figures and Tonka Trucks that I played with in the dirt in my backyard.I wasn't into playing with baby dolls. I am now what you would probably consider a "feminine" woman. What does that make me, in your eyes?



Boys have all that ... They've got G.I. Joe, Superman, Spiderman, Thor, He-Man, Lego, Iron Man, Tonka Trucks, Power Rangers, Captain America, Hot Wheels, the Incredible Hulk, Transformers, Nerf guns, water guns, bow and arrows sets, football, every kind of video game imaginable, etc., etc., etc. Of course, girls can play with all of these things as well, like I did.


I guess I don't see what the big deal is.


The big deal is fairness. My beef is not with the female sex. My beef is with politicians, the media and commercial entities that deem masculine terms as BOY to be dirty words such that they abstain from using such terms. It's about preserving the traditional American language. I don't like the unsexing of our dialect. Masculine words don't get nearly the same level of representation as feminine words by commercial entities and not-for-profit entities. The male sex is a unique thing with a unique identity unto himself as the female sex is a unique thing with a unique identity unto herself. There is nothing really "more special" about the female sex. Men have deep voices and greater body musculature which are natural. Women have developed breasts and hourglass figures which are natural. Women often put on lipstick and makeup which is unnatural. Some men, very few these days, are actually clean-shaven which is unnatural. Being a man who hates the look and feel of beards, I prefer the unnatural clean-shaven look.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
The big deal is fairness. My beef is not with the female sex. My beef is with politicians, the media and commercial entities that deem masculine terms as BOY to be dirty words such that they abstain from using such terms.
Who are these people that you say are demonizing the word "boy?"

It's about preserving the traditional American language. I don't like the unsexing of our dialect. Masculine words don't get nearly the same level of representation as feminine words by commercial entities and not-for-profit entities.
I'm sorry, but I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Could you provide a couple of examples to better illustrate your argument?

The male sex is a unique thing with a unique identity unto himself as the female sex is a unique thing with a unique identity unto herself. There is nothing really "more special" about the female sex. Men have deep voices and greater body musculature which are natural. Women have developed breasts and hourglass figures which are natural. Women often put on lipstick and makeup which is unnatural. Some men, very few these days, are actually clean-shaven which is unnatural. Being a man who hates the look and feel of beards, I prefer the unnatural clean-shaven look.
Okay :shrug:

I say each human being is unique with a unique identity that isn't nearly as binary as you'd like it to be, in terms of masculine/feminine.

Not all men have deep voices. Not all women have hourglass figures. Not all women wear lipstick. Not all men have short hair. I could go on and on. You seem to want everybody to fit into little stereotypical boxes, when they just don't fit.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
Who are these people that you say are demonizing the word "boy?"


I'm sorry, but I really have no idea what you are talking about.

Could you provide a couple of examples to better illustrate your argument?



Okay :shrug:

I say each human being is unique with a unique identity that isn't nearly as binary as you'd like it to be, in terms of masculine/feminine.

Not all men have deep voices. Not all women have hourglass figures. Not all women wear lipstick. Not all men have short hair. I could go on and on. You seem to want everybody to fit into little stereotypical boxes, when they just don't fit.


OK, here goes look at the following website link:

Youth organizations in the United States - Wikipedia

Count the number of organizations listed there with GIRL in their titles and compare that with the number of organizations listed there with BOY in their titles. You see the term GIRL appear many more times than the word BOY.


I only counted 5 groups with the term BOY in its title while I counted the word GIRL to appear in the titles of ten organizations listed there.

One such BOY-titled organization, Boys Scouts, is no longer male-only.

I don't think there is any GIRL-titled organization that allows boys.

Another one listed, Boys & Girls Clubs of America, seems to be coed by its namesake.

There used a time when children's clubs were designated for boys or for girls only.

It seems to be not only a battle of the sexes but a battle of the usage of gender-specific terms as well.

To me abstaining from the use of the term BOY implies it's bad word. To imply BOY is bad is to imply male children and youth are bad. Why is the word SH_T and the word N_GGER commonly abstained from in the media and everyday conversation? It's a bad word. Is the term BOY vulgar like the tem SH_T and the term N_GGER?
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
OK, here goes look at the following website link:

Youth organizations in the United States - Wikipedia

Count the number of organizations listed there with GIRL in their titles and compare that with the number of organizations listed there with BOY in their titles. You see the term GIRL appear many more times than the word BOY.


I only counted 5 groups with the term BOY in its title while I counted the word GIRL to appear in the titles of ten organizations listed there.

One such BOY-titled organization, Boys Scouts, is no longer male-only.

I don't think there is any GIRL-titled organization that allows boys.

Another one listed, Boys & Girls Clubs of America, seems to be coed by its namesake.

It seems to be not only a battle of the sexes but a battle of gender-specific terms as well.
I'm sorry but I must be missing something.

This is what you're basing your claims about demonizing the word "boy" upon?

Most of the organizations on that list appear to accept all youth, regardless of gender, which isn't all that surprising to me. Some of them accept only boys but don't have the word "boy" in their title (e.g. The Challengers, The Ambassadors). When I was young I was in a girl's Christian youth group called Sparkies, with no mention of girls in the title whatsoever. So what? I guess I'm not seeing where the "battle of the sexes" or "battle of gender-specific terms" enters the picture.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Why can't GIRL Scouts do that for young ladies?

Self-reliance is a male thing anyway. Women need men to fix the car.

You know, that is quite the opposite thing you should be saying. This just... backfires on you.

I mean, you want boys only groups to be seen in a good light. You think those groups are being mistreated and mishandled, I get it. But when you say sexist stuff like that you just help reinforce the idea that separating males from females breeds sexism. So, the boy scouts are probably thinking: thanks for nothing, I guess.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but I must be missing something.

This is what you're basing your claims about demonizing the word "boy" upon?

Most of the organizations on that list appear to accept all youth, regardless of gender, which isn't all that surprising to me. Some of them accept only boys but don't have the word "boy" in their title (e.g. The Challengers, The Ambassadors). When I was young I was in a girl's Christian youth group called Sparkies, with no mention of girls in the title whatsoever. So what? I guess I'm not seeing where the "battle of the sexes" or "battle of gender-specific terms" enters the picture.


I'm sorry then. I can't explain it any further.

If I were very rich, I would found an all-male youth organization in America called "Boys of the American Republic" and call its members officially "Republic Boys" and have an official magazine called the Republic Boys. I would not call them "Republican Boys" as that might wrongfully imply affiliation with a political party. The organization would be scout-like and embrace respect for country, Constitution, good model citizenship, moral virtues and not lying and cheating, abstinence from smoking, alcohol and illegal drugs and for promoting national pride. It would also embrace 2nd A gun rights and responsible firearms ownership and use. There would be no homophobia in the organization and it would be open to all faiths. I would have to first consult with a lawyer knowledgeable of the Americans with Disabilities Act before implementing a policy for adult leaders based on mental health condition. As far as I am concern, a person sane enough to not have to be locked up is sane enough to lead and supervise minors. Registered sex offenders are an absolute no-no.

It's adult leaders, male, would be thoroughly screened for criminal record, mental health, drug abuse and history sexual misconduct. They would be required to be non-smoking. No convicted felons, registered sex offenders or those with ongoing mental issues would be permitted as adult staff members as a matter of my policy. Women would be allowed as volunteers to help with organization functions as meal preparation and interior decoration and perhaps also as "room mothers" providing adult guardianship and discipline for misbehavior.

I believe at one time during history, scout masters and den mothers of the various divisions of Boy Scouts could provide punishment as spankings for child misbehavior at organization meets and functions. As the Bible says, "spare the rod, spoil the child" which I do believe in.

But I can't dictate to private entities as to what to name their organizations, authors of intellectual materials as to what to publish or to commercial entities as to what to name their products. I can only boycott products and other things as I choose for whatever reasons I choose. I refuse to purchase Girl Scout cookies for more than one reason. One of them is that I am on a diet and abstain from sweets. Another is that the Boy Scouts never had a comparable commercial product to sell under their own name and I'm jealous as a male. Another, I object to the use of the term SCOUT in a female organization so I won't personally sponsor its cause. I don't think the term SCOUT sounds feminine. The British use "Girl GUIDES" and I find GUIDES more acceptable than SCOUT for the female sex. Girl Guides (or any female youth organization) should wear uniforms based upon pretty skirts, blouses and dresses (like the waitresses on the late-'70's TV program, Alice) instead of paramilitary-looking uniforms. Camo, baseball hats, khaki shirts, khaki trousers, navy blue pants and shirts, bandanas, paramilitary-looking patches and combat boots are just not feminine.
 
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