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That Whole Homosexual--Sin Thing

InChrist

Free4ever
Ever here the adage "A swallow does not a summer make"?

Thing is, there's quite a spectrum on the sexual orientation continuum. Between the extreme ends of absolutely heterosexual and absolutely homosexual a person may end up anywhere in between. So although the guy in the video may have at one time identified as homosexual it's very possible that he wasn't all that far from identifying as a heterosexual. Bisexuals often switch their identities between the two as time goes by. Same goes for your friend. It's extremely, EXTREMELY, doubtful he ever sat at the absolutely homosexual end of the continuum, and that he's perfectly comfortable with his switch. From what I've read, of people who have had to force themselves from one position to the other very, very few have adjusted to where they are comfortably happy with their new identity. In fact, I recall that the suicide rate among such people is considerable.

So I would be hesitant to hype such changes as brimming with welcome results. Some of them are far from it.

.
My point and I think a prominent point of the video is that one's identity as a person is not meant to be or determined by sexuality, whatever the spectrum of sexual continuum. The statistics from countries such as the Netherlands and Sweden where same-sex marriage has been the law of the land for years reveal that homosexual men remain three- to ten-times more likely to engage in suicidal self-harm. So it is the homosexual identity/lifestyle itself which is harming people, not only physically, but emotionally, psychologically, and I would say spiritually, also.
Exploring a Dutch paradox: an ethnographic investigation of gay men's mental health. - PubMed - NCBI

Many who consider themselves former homosexuals have adjusted well because it is not a matter of trying to force oneself into another identity, but rather being set free from a destructive false identity and into the true identity God has intended for everyone in Christ.

CHANGED is a community of friends who once identified as LGBTQ+. Today, we celebrate the love of Jesus and His freedom in our lives.
Changed - #ONCEGAY STORIES



 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Because men who engage exclusively in homosexual activity are undermining the patriarchal system of control. They are disengage in oppressing women with their penises (though gay men can be oppressive towards women by other means) by keeping women pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen. Women must be kept in check because if you don't keep them in check they will start clamoring for rights that infringe upon male privilege and homosexual men aren't pulling their weight when it comes to oppressing women which according to the Patriarchal God of Genesis is man's duty because he put a curse upon Eve "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16. According to this scripture the oppression of women is God's will and if any man is not oppressing women by ruling over as her lord and husband then he is not following God's will. And since homosexual men are not oppressing women by acting upon the God-given role assigned to males to rule over women as their lord and master they are sinning and therefore should be punish.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Because men who engage exclusively in homosexual activity are undermining the patriarchal system of control. They are disengage in oppressing women with their penises (though gay men can be oppressive towards women by other means) by keeping women pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen. Women must be kept in check because if you don't keep them in check they will start clamoring for rights that infringe upon male privilege and homosexual men aren't pulling their weight when it comes to oppressing women which according to the Patriarchal God of Genesis is man's duty because he put a curse upon Eve "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16. According to this scripture the oppression of women is God's will and if any man is not oppressing women by ruling over as her lord and husband then he is not following God's will. And since homosexual men are not oppressing women by acting upon the God-given role assigned to males to rule over women as their lord and master they are sinning and therefore should be punish.

Or homosexuality may be the biggest, most extreme expression of misogyny. After all, according to the scriptures God created both male and female to reflect His image together and to reproduce human life. Homosexuality throws out the need for women for companionship, marriage, sexual relations, new life and to represent the complete image of God.
Just as much of an extreme and unbiblical attitude as those men who lord it over and oppress women, contrary to the words and examples of Christ.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Or homosexuality may be the biggest, most extreme expression of misogyny.

The heterosexual sexual enslavement of women is the most extreme expression of misogyny. To tell a woman that her assigned role is to be submissive and just keep quiet, that she is a lesser being cursed by God because a decision made by a supposed ancestor is the most extreme expression of misogyny. To take away a woman's agency and to place her fate into the hands of her father or husband is the most extreme expression of misogyny, to force women and girl into a state of being that they are utterly dependent upon males for substance, safety and security is the most extreme expression of misogyny. To deny a woman the most basic of human right: body autonomy is the most extreme expression of misogyny.

A man putting his tallywacker in the bumbum of another man is not the most extreme expression of misogyny, in fact it isn't misogyny at all.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
Because men who engage exclusively in homosexual activity are undermining the patriarchal system of control. They are disengage in oppressing women with their penises (though gay men can be oppressive towards women by other means) by keeping women pregnant, barefoot and in the kitchen. Women must be kept in check because if you don't keep them in check they will start clamoring for rights that infringe upon male privilege and homosexual men aren't pulling their weight when it comes to oppressing women which according to the Patriarchal God of Genesis is man's duty because he put a curse upon Eve "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Genesis 3:16. According to this scripture the oppression of women is God's will and if any man is not oppressing women by ruling over as her lord and husband then he is not following God's will. And since homosexual men are not oppressing women by acting upon the God-given role assigned to males to rule over women as their lord and master they are sinning and therefore should be punish.
The scriptures do not endorse a patriarchal system as you are suggesting.

"In a patriarchal society then, men are seen as entitled to power and control over women. It is the man, the husband, the father whose mission in life truly matters to God, and therefore the woman, the wife, the mother, the children exist to further that mission. Their personhood, in other words, does not exist independently, nor even symbiotically, but rather as an “attachment” to the main program.

This is all in contrast to the biblical teaching that both men and women are created in the image of God. Neither is it an accurate application of the scripture’s doctrine of a husband being the head of his wife which, in contrast, emphasizes that headship as working itself out in loving, sacrificial service apart from a lording it over. Patriarchy denies the reality of the Apostle Paul’s words:


Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (29) And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.


This text is distorted frequently of course. There ARE differences between men and women! But Paul reminds us here that there is no “—archy” of any kind in Christ. There is no “power over.” In fact, other scriptures tell us that the “archy-ites” (the ones who are first now) will be last in the kingdom. Men and women, husbands and wives, parents and children, all who are truly in Christ are full heirs of every blessing in the heavenly places, and in the new creation which is on its way. ~Jeff Crippen'

Smashing Patriarchy and Their Twisted Translations of the Bible
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
The scriptures do not endorse a patriarchal system as you are suggesting.

"In a patriarchal society then, men are seen as entitled to power and control over women. It is the man, the husband, the father whose mission in life truly matters to God, and therefore the woman, the wife, the mother, the children exist to further that mission. Their personhood, in other words, does not exist independently, nor even symbiotically, but rather as an “attachment” to the main program.

This is all in contrast to the biblical teaching that both men and women are created in the image of God. Neither is it an accurate application of the scripture’s doctrine of a husband being the head of his wife which, in contrast, emphasizes that headship as working itself out in loving, sacrificial service apart from a lording it over. Patriarchy denies the reality of the Apostle Paul’s words:


Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (29) And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.


This text is distorted frequently of course. There ARE differences between men and women! But Paul reminds us here that there is no “—archy” of any kind in Christ. There is no “power over.” In fact, other scriptures tell us that the “archy-ites” (the ones who are first now) will be last in the kingdom. Men and women, husbands and wives, parents and children, all who are truly in Christ are full heirs of every blessing in the heavenly places, and in the new creation which is on its way. ~Jeff Crippen'

Smashing Patriarchy and Their Twisted Translations of the Bible
1 Corinthians 11
Ephesians 5: 22-24
Colossians 3:18
1 Thessalonians 4:4
1 Timothy 2
Titus 2: 4,5
and I can go on and on. Tell me again that the Bible doesn't endorse a patriarchal system.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Then, sorry to inform you, that doesn't work. You've got no leg to stand on with such behavior, most people will realize this, and you'll just look like a fool holding an empty bag.

There's a "time for everything" under the sun, including the silencing of foolish arguments, yours and mine alike!
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
There's a "time for everything" under the sun, including the silencing of foolish arguments, yours and mine alike!
Then by all means... tell me again how I am not allowed to discuss the issue of homosexual discrimination before I've taken up arms against abortion. Don't let me stop you from taking your time "under the sun" looking like a fool.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
1 Corinthians 11
Ephesians 5: 22-24
Colossians 3:18
1 Thessalonians 4:4
1 Timothy 2
Titus 2: 4,5
and I can go on and on. Tell me again that the Bible doesn't endorse a patriarchal system.

The Bible does not endorse the kind of patriarchy you are suggesting, which is the same kind of false patriarchal teachings espoused by modern day false teachers as Bill Gothard, Doug Philips (which have both fallen from their self-exatled positions) and others who twist the scriptures for their own power and control.

The scriptures you listed only demonstrate God's order and submission which are not bad things. Jesus Himself lived out a submissive life and He is God.

The Bible only specifically lists as patriarchs : Abraham, the twelve sons of Jacob, and David. Genesis 17 suggests what a patriarch is, and Who grants this privilege:

As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you." Genesis 17:4-6

These words are from God to Abraham ~ not a promise for every man for all of time. But we do have a clear word that applies to all of us. In fulfillment of God's word, the last patriarch mentioned in Scripture, King David, became the forefather of another King (Jesus) who said,

Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven.

With this, Jesus proclaims the One who is our Patriarch! He is our Source, our Head; furthermore, after this saying, there are no new patriarchs in the Bible. On the contrary, we see Jesus' call to abandon titles and to take up the cross! We are called to be humble servants. And called to be like children. Jesus proclaimed that unless one becomes “converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven...Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of heaven.”
Jesus said the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand...

...but counterfeit patriarchy seeks to establish kingdoms of the earth.

So basically, you are saying the Bible says the same thing as false teachers who twist the scriptures to create a patriarchal system to empower themselves which is totally against God's word and will.

I think you are getting off topic here, too. If you want to create a new thread about "patriarchy" go ahead. I'm not interested in the subject any further, though. I have been exposed to patriarchy and seen it play out in people's lives for years. I have seen the damage it causes to women and girls, even the men. I've seen the power, control, and abuse. I have researched, studied, and prayed about this and nothing you say will convince me that the Bible supports this mentality and behavior. The message of the Bible is just the opposite.

In the form of (unbiblical) patriarchy you have described men control and abuse women, while with homosexuality men just disregard and reject the value God places on women.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I meant what you were doing earlier. Trying to get me to take a stance and speak out against abortion before you felt I was allowed to speak on matters of homosexual discrimination. It felt like an attempt to silence myself and others on a topic you felt you knew better on.

Or was that not it? Was it just a suggestion as to another cause we could take up? Is that truly all it was? Maybe think hard on it.
That's his M.O. He has tried it on me on the past where he used it to avoid answering questions about his own views on slavery.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Then by all means... tell me again how I am not allowed to discuss the issue of homosexual discrimination before I've taken up arms against abortion. Don't let me stop you from taking your time "under the sun" looking like a fool.

You can talk about homosexual discrimination as much as you like.

The more you do so, however, the more you show you might have a little too much sex on the brain, and less of a perspective on whose causes we need to truly fight for.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
You can talk about homosexual discrimination as much as you like. The more you do so, however, the more you show you might have a little too much sex on the brain,
What about "discrimination on the brain" - ever consider that?

and less of a perspective on whose causes we need to truly fight for.
And this is what I have been trying to get across to you for, oh I don't know, the last 5 or 6 posts. "whose causes we need to truly fight for" is entirely a matter of opinion. Like it or not. You can obviously push for whatever cause you feel should be in the spotlight, and try to sway public opinion or rally others to your cause. Your methods of doing so, however, leave quite a lot to be desired (something else I've been trying to convey to you over the last several posts).
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The result being that you don't actively work to push me away from Jesus, the way many Christians do.

I guess that's a victory, of sorts. I would think that a Person of God, like the Holy Ghost, could inspire something a little more positive. But apparently, there is no Holy Ghost who cares that much.
Tom

I believe I care.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Lets see. I, along with millions and millions of others, will suffer torment, everlasting fire, eternal damnation, everlasting punishment, and be subject to the weeping and wailing of gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness where the worm dieth not because your just and merciful god is a loving god.

Hmmm. Sounds about right. Thank you. Thank you Jesus.

.

I believe you deserve it.

I believe this is not Hell. Hell is inner not outer.
 
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