dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's a fair point of clarification. Noted.
Just to be clear: Do you think religion in America is correlated to gun violence in America? If so, why?
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Existence is always 50/50
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
Just to be clear: Do you think religion in America is correlated to gun violence in America? If so, why?
LIIA
Well-Known Member
Can you explain which part you don’t agree with and why?
God is not physical and definitely not human. Whatever you think of or imagine, will always be something physical that exists within the limits of space-time, God is beyond this realm and absolutely not subject to any physical limits.
The example of God can be imagined through the example of a physical force, science may observe it and measure it’s influence. The existence of the force can be only recognized through the observation of its influence but science absolutely fails when it comes to understanding the nature of the force itself. If this is the case of a physical force that exists within our realm, What if the force is totally beyond our realm, our limits and capacity? What do you think science or we can do? We can still observe an influence, the influence in this case is the Big Bang itself but the force causing the influence is definitely beyond any physical limits and of an immeasurable/unimaginable magnitude.
The denial of God on the basis that his nature is beyond our capacity to observe, measure and understand is not logical. Our limits encompass us but have no relevance to the absolute existence beyond.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
I don't have any statistics to suggest that there is a correlation between gun violence and religious beliefs in the US.
However, it does seem to me that there is a correlation between "radicalism" in religion and being "gun nuts".
When I think about states that are really big on guns, I think about states like Texas etc. Republican states. These states are in the so called "bible belt". It seems to me that republicans are more likely to be radical christians. These same people are also more likely to be against stricter gun laws etc.
But, wanting to have lots of guns, or easy access to them, doesn't necessarily mean that those same people are more likely to engage in gun violence.
I do think that the correlation between radical theism and almost dogmatic adherence to the right to own weapons has deeper roots. Some kind of psychological thing that makes people more prone to black & white radical beliefs. Their belief about absolutely wanting to own (or be able to own) what I can only call war weapons, seems just as dogmatic and closed minded as their religious beliefs.
When you converse with such people about either subject, I always get the same feeling. A sense of "no matter what I say, I'll never get through to this guy...clearly he made up his mind and no amount of evidence, data or arguments is going to change that"
However, there are some correlations in the bible belt that are rather interesting....
For example, teenage pregnancy there is much higher then elsewhere. Domestic violence too.
I don't want to blame their religious beliefs for it. Because, again, correlation does not imply causation.
However, my main point here, is that US stats are the best counter argument to the ridiculous "atheism is bad cause stalin, pol pot etc".
If atheism is the reason of why the Soviet union was such a terrible place to live, then why are Sweden and Japan among the best places to live? And why then, is crime, sexual harrasment, etc so through the roof in the US compared to the rest of the western world?
That's my only point really.
I'm not blaming religion for the crime, gun violence, etc in the US.
But it does show, beyond refute imo, that the lack of religion is not what the root of the problem in Soviet Russia. If it were, then the US would be the BEST place to live. But it's not. And if it were, then Sweden and Japan would be terrible places to live. But they aren't.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I think we are on the same page....
i have posted for years....there will not be
a photo, a fingerprint, an equation or a repeatable experiment
no proof
when it comes to God.....all you can do is think about it
and may the Force be with you
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Agreed. Atheism is not bad.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
unless you are standing before God and heaven
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Christianity would also be bad in case you are standing in front of Odin blocking the entrance to whalhalla.
So that doesn't mean anything.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
well it means a lot to the people trying to get in.....
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Good job missing the point.
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
But when it all comes down to it, does probability really exist, or is everything 100%?
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
And yet there is existence.
At what level?
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
But if God/the universe didn't have to exist, why do they?
The Sum of Awe
Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.
At every level. To say something is '50% likely' to happen is just how likely it is from our perspective. But in truth, aren't the way things happen the way they were always going to happen? A series of effects reacting since the First Cause?
Why not? They didn't exist 15B years ago, what changed? Where did this necessity suddenly come from?
But does probability and statistics apply from a theoretical physics standpoint? What if time, or movement, or change were illusions? Can anything be said to 'happen' if past and future were as real as present, or if nothing changes, or if every possibility is realized?
PureX
Veteran Member
Yes, and it's begging a very big question.