Who will get to heaven?

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - the vast overwhelming majority of God's children, the human family, will enter into His Kingdom after their Resurrection and Final Judgment.

Only those who committed the "unpardonable sin", referred to as the "sin against the Holy Ghost" will be banished from His sight and inherit "outer darkness" that was prepared for them.

In order to commit this sin a person would need to know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God - and then afterwards reject or betray that knowledge.

A common metaphor to explain this process is for a person to look up at the sun at noonday and declare that it does not shine.

I can only think of a couple mentioned in the scriptures who may have committed such a sin - Cain, the son of Adam who murdered his brother and lied to God, and Judas Iscariot, the fallen Apostle who betrayed his Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, with a kiss.

These two, and any others who may have committed the unpardonable sin, will rise in the Resurrection of the Unjust, receive their Final Judgment, and be banished to "outer darkness", the only realm that exists outside the Kingdom of God.

Very few of those who live upon the Earth ever receive a perfect knowledge of God while in mortality, and very few of those would be wicked enough to betray that knowledge.

Prestor John said:

According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - the vast overwhelming majority of God's children, the human family, will enter into His Kingdom after their Resurrection and Final Judgment.

Only those who committed the "unpardonable sin", referred to as the "sin against the Holy Ghost" will be banished from His sight and inherit "outer darkness" that was prepared for them.

In order to commit this sin a person would need to know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God - and then afterwards reject or betray that knowledge.

A common metaphor to explain this process is for a person to look up at the sun at noonday and declare that it does not shine.

I can only think of a couple mentioned in the scriptures who may have committed such a sin - Cain, the son of Adam who murdered his brother and lied to God, and Judas Iscariot, the fallen Apostle who betrayed his Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, with a kiss.

These two, and any others who may have committed the unpardonable sin, will rise in the Resurrection of the Unjust, receive their Final Judgment, and be banished to "outer darkness", the only realm that exists outside the Kingdom of God.

Very few of those who live upon the Earth ever receive a perfect knowledge of God while in mortality, and very few of those would be wicked enough to betray that knowledge.

Click to expand...

What about Adam? And Eve? I mean your optimistic statistics could be a bit off if we consider that 3 out of the first 4 humans reported to have existed (Adam, Eve and Cain) all (presumably) had perfect knowledge of God and betrayed him - don't you think. On that basis, I reckon the "darkness" could get pretty cramped.

It would also appear that ignorance is by the far the best protection - wouldn't that suggest that most loving thing for Christians to do would be to immediately cease any preaching and teaching activities and try not to mention anything about God in casual conversation?

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

How can we verify anything about the nature of heaven at all? How do we know it even exists?

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

"Heaven" is within each individual person, you either learn to confront your inner realm, and achieve peace, or you live a life of servitude to misplaced passions.

KenS said:

What is the measurement or plumb line of "good"?

Click to expand...

In which culture, and which time in history?

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

Interesting that you were incapable of actually answering the question of the op, but decided to divert attention and criticize someone you have no knowledge of. Where did you learn such tactics?

Click to expand...

I believe,
I showed you his painted portrait and his grave.
Read his bio at en.wikipedia.

Emanuel Swedenborg was a Swedish Lutheran theologian, scientist, philosopher and mystic. He is best known for his book on the afterlife, Heaven and Hell. Swedenborg had a prolific career as an inventor and scientist. Wikipedia
Born: 29 January 1688, Stockholm, Sweden
Died: 29 March 1772, London, United Kingdom
Influenced by: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine of Hippo, René Descartes, Isaac Newton, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Plotinus
Parents: Jesper Swedberg, Sara Behm

The poor Lutheran theologian is a bit off in the scriptural teachings
What is scriptural about "all those who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be?"
From the Bible not from me:



Romans 3:10-18 New International Version (NIV)
As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now compare with his quote:


Do you see the difference?
His quote: ".....all who lead good lives."
The bible: there is no one who does good, not even one

What can I say?
There is no such people.
Not even me or anybody.

Gerry said:

So very true.
I agree with your entire comment.

Also, you say the soul is not permanent. Yes.
But do you think we also have a spirit, or inner self? Which is what becomes enlightened upon letting go of the human existence.

Click to expand...

No i do not think we have a permanent spirit But we have two forms of cosiousness,
Subconsiousnes and consiousnes ( the last one is the one we think we are, the one we call human being)

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

Actually, "heaven" (the place where God's throne now resides) is not our reward -the meek shall inherit the earth (and later the entire creation -or "the heavens")

However... if you read scripture "line upon line, precept upon precept" to get a complete picture of what will happen, there is hope for all (though it is between them and God).
Contrary to popular belief, the bible indicates that none are now in heaven -or hell (except hades/sheol -the grave -and are as "asleep").
Those in Christ are made immortal at his return -and the rest of the dead are resurrected to the judgment a thousand years later -where some fare well and others do not -at least immediately.

Consider the following....

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

God is ABLE to destroy both body and spirit in gehenna, but that is not to say that is what he WILL do.

Notice that death and the grave are destroyed in the lake of fire! Verse 15 is written after the others, but we know from the above verses that death is the LAST to be destroyed -and if you destroy death, it is by making everyone alive!

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

Only God will decide; but heaven is not what people think. I suspect that the lake of fire is also in heaven after all and many other things. What you really want is to get to the new creation. (As God said "I make all things new") There is not just a heaven there but a new earth where the righteous will live ... Although they may also go into heaven I suppose ...

shunyadragon said:

In which culture, and which time in history?

Click to expand...

EXACTLY! It's all relative until there is one that is true and perfect.

siti said:

Why don't bees go to heaven?

Click to expand...

I fully expect to see bees in heaven

MJFlores said:

I believe,
I showed you his painted portrait and his grave.
Read his bio at en.wikipedia.

Emanuel Swedenborg was a Swedish Lutheran theologian, scientist, philosopher and mystic. He is best known for his book on the afterlife, Heaven and Hell. Swedenborg had a prolific career as an inventor and scientist. Wikipedia
Born: 29 January 1688, Stockholm, Sweden
Died: 29 March 1772, London, United Kingdom
Influenced by: Plato, Aristotle, Augustine of Hippo, René Descartes, Isaac Newton, Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, Plotinus
Parents: Jesper Swedberg, Sara Behm

The poor Lutheran theologian is a bit off in the scriptural teachings
What is scriptural about "all those who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be?"
From the Bible not from me:

Romans 3:10-18 New International Version (NIV)
As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
“Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
“Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
ruin and misery mark their ways,
and the way of peace they do not know.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Now compare with his quote:

Do you see the difference?
His quote: ".....all who lead good lives."
The bible: there is no one who does good, not even one

What can I say?
There is no such people.
Not even me or anybody.

Click to expand...

Again, a lengthy diatribe of preaching but no attempt to respond to the op.

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

I believe it was because Swedenborg didn't know why Heaven is available.

Rival said:

Oh. Well I agree with the quote, so not much I can add.

Click to expand...

I believe there is insufficient evidence to support your view. I do believe there is evidence that good people can get there.

Amanaki said:

Those who can reach enlightenment and end the samsara (rebirth) are those who will enter heavenly realm. those who do not reach enlightenment stay in the rebirth cycle

Click to expand...

I believe you are in error. I am not very enlightened as Buddhists view it but I was in Heaven.

Muffled said:

I believe you are in error. I am not very enlightened as Buddhists view it but I was in Heaven.

Click to expand...

That you are not agree to the buddhist view is ok, Buddhism and Christianity do see things differently.
Can i ask, When you was is heaven as you call it. What did you experience and if it is possible to describe how you enter the heavenly realm?
Did you use a form of prayer or meditation?

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

There is no heaven. So, nobody will go there.

Ciao

- viole

Prestor John said:

According to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - the vast overwhelming majority of God's children, the human family, will enter into His Kingdom after their Resurrection and Final Judgment.

Only those who committed the "unpardonable sin", referred to as the "sin against the Holy Ghost" will be banished from His sight and inherit "outer darkness" that was prepared for them.

In order to commit this sin a person would need to know, beyond the shadow of any doubt, that God lives and that Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God - and then afterwards reject or betray that knowledge.

A common metaphor to explain this process is for a person to look up at the sun at noonday and declare that it does not shine.

I can only think of a couple mentioned in the scriptures who may have committed such a sin - Cain, the son of Adam who murdered his brother and lied to God, and Judas Iscariot, the fallen Apostle who betrayed his Master, the Lord Jesus Christ, with a kiss.

These two, and any others who may have committed the unpardonable sin, will rise in the Resurrection of the Unjust, receive their Final Judgment, and be banished to "outer darkness", the only realm that exists outside the Kingdom of God.

Very few of those who live upon the Earth ever receive a perfect knowledge of God while in mortality, and very few of those would be wicked enough to betray that knowledge.

Click to expand...

How does a sin against the Holy Ghost look like? I will like to try it.

Ciao

- fiole

KenS said:

EXACTLY! It's all relative until there is one that is true and perfect.

Click to expand...

Everyone claims their's is true and perfect.

Gerry said:

“The nature of heaven is to provide a place there for all who lead good lives, no matter what their religion may be.”
― Emanuel Swedenborg

My question: Why not?

Click to expand...

What about people who lead good lives but have no religion?