Should Women's Homeless Shelters Ban Trans Identified Males?

ADigitalArtist said:

Shelters aren't healthcare facilities. Theres no reason shelters can't provide the same sort of access to counseling and support group contacts for trans as they do counseling for physical and mental disabilities, substance abuse, religious support groups, etc etc. That would be more economical than building specialist facilities and would mean trans folk would have more local access.
And you wouldn't be segregating out trans from the rest of the population because some people can't 'deal with them'.

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Some do provide mental health care, it is a necessity when you are dealing with a large population with mental health issues. We have shelters the target the specific needs of gay youths (because some of them don't want to be around straights who can be violent and vulgar towards them), so why can't we have the same for transgender?

Father Heathen said:

I'm pretty sure most women don't consider being assailed upon by a crowd of homeless men in a dorm to be a desirable situation.

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FH...Men are not potential rapists...
Let s not vilify males

The Reverend Bob said:

I am not equating sex and gender. You are. I don't believe that trans women are biologically female something which you keep denying because you keep chanting that mantra "transwomen are women" as if it is somehow change that XY into XX. No amount of drugs or hormones or surgery or all the frilly dresses and stereotypical "feminine" behaviors is ever going to change the fact that they are not biological females.

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...so? Why are you so fixated on whether someone has xx or xy chromosomes? If you can tell someone's genetic makeup at a glance, I'm happy to concede the point, however I doubt you or anyone else can.

The Reverend Bob said:

Some do provide mental health care, it is a necessity when you are dealing with a large population with mental health issues. We have shelters the target the specific needs of gay youths (because some of them don't want to be around straights who can be violent and vulgar towards them), so why can't we have the same for transgender?

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Show me a shelter that only allows gay people (if there even is such a thing) and I'll show you something that is both worse for gays and society for it. Segregation is not a solution.

ADigitalArtist said:

Show me a shelter that only allows gay people (if there even is such a thing) and I'll show you something that is both worse for gays and society for it. Segregation is not a solution.

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We have several in Los Angeles and more are opening up around the country.

Cities Build Homeless Shelters for LGBT Youth

The Reverend Bob said:

We have several in Los Angeles and more are opening up around the country.

Cities Build Homeless Shelters for LGBT Youth

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As I said. Segregation is not a solution, I definitely do not agree with isolation "for their safety" which is so often a bad faith argument for segregation in the first place. Plus, do LGBT go there because they're not allowed to go to the shelter that's right down the street? Then I dont think it has the same connotation.

The Reverend Bob said:

Where the hell do you think they shelter trans men? Not in men's shelters out of fear they will be subject to violence and sexually assault. They are sheltered in women's shelters

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Reverend...you should use MtF or FtM as terms.
The terms you use are confusing.

ADigitalArtist said:

As I said. Segregation is not a solution, I definitely do not agree with isolation "for their safety" which is so often a bad faith argument for segregation in the first place. Plus, do LGBT go there because they're not allowed to go to the shelter that's right down the street? Then I dont think it has the same connotation.

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Do you take issue that sometimes gay youth want to have their own separate space away from straight people and find that they like staying in shelters that address their needs? If it is there decision I find no reason to judge them on it.

Estro Felino said:

Reverend...you should use MtF or FtM as terms.
The terms you use are confusing.

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I believe most transgender like the use of trans men or trans women rather than MtF or FtM because they believe those terms (MtF or FtM) misgenders them. So out of respect for them I will use the prefered terms for the rest of this thread.

Estro Felino said:

One question, @Father Heathen .
If they forced you to use the female locker room, would you be unhappy about it?

I guess you wouldn't.
So as for me, I'm happy if I can still use the male locker room.

I am not ashamed of saying I like men....the male body.

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What I'm referring to has nothing to do with who or what one is attracted to; it's about being vulnerable around a crowd of potentially dangerous strangers in a confined area.

The Reverend Bob said:

Do you take issue that sometimes gay youth want to have their own separate space away from straight people and find that they like staying in shelters that address their needs? If it is there decision I find no reason to judge them on it.

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Same feeling: Redirect Notice
Even if I thought this was a safe space equivalent, this isnt their decision though. This is you saying that they have to go there because they can't go to cis shelters.

Estro Felino said:

FH...Men are not potential rapists...
Let s not vilify males

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I'm not "vilifying" anyone, but women have reason to be cautious in today's world, unfortunately.

LGBT specific shelters do exist, for those unaware. So there are alternative options available.

Father Heathen said:

I'm not "vilifying" anyone, but women have reason to be cautious in today's world, unfortunately.

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Women have had a reason to be cautious throughout history not just in today's world.

The Reverend Bob said:

Women have had a reason to be cautious throughout history not just in today's world.

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I wasn't implying otherwise.

Father Heathen said:

I wasn't implying otherwise.

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I know you weren't, I was just saying.

The Reverend Bob said:

I believe most transgender like the use of trans men or trans women rather than MtF or FtM because they believe those terms (MtF or FtM) misgenders them. So out of respect for them I will use the prefered terms for the rest of this thread.

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No. Even in psychology the correct terms are MtF and FtM.

In the verdict of the trial that gave me the authorization to have surgery it is written MtF...
It's even a juridic term.

Sometimes people see a threat that comes from inside themselves. Being a "Tranny", even post op carries all sorts of dangers regarding future employment, church membership, family, friends... and so on. When the sun goes down, unless you are suicidal or stupid you are IN your home. Even those who 'pass' sometimes get read. I don't go to any clubs or dance halls, and have to remain very aware of who is around.

These fears about women being attacked by them are just nuts.

I'm of the opinion that the Psychological Community and the Drug companies were shameless in the pseudo treatment of those with Gender Identity Disorder.

Life for a "T" person is hard enough, why would anyone who expects to face God to be judged treat one badly? Suicide rate remains over 40% even after surgery. With what trump and his minions are doing, life feels more threatening every day, and perhaps the events of one day will be enough and I will suicide. I've been resisting it but bigots do not make it easier.

As to separating them from women in shelters, I can't argue with that, though the danger is nil. One must take into consideration how a woman who has been abused will see things, even the ones that are not real.

I suspicion that the OP was derived from someone's imagined fears, and they don't particularly care if they hurt another person.

Ellen Brown said:

I'm of the opinion that the Psychological Community and the Drug companies were shameless in the pseudo treatment of those with Gender Identity Disorder.

Life for a "T" person is hard enough, why would anyone who expects to face God to be judged treat one badly? Suicide rate remains over 40% even after surgery.

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As I Said I will be ETERNALLY thankful to the Italian Republic for paying for my sex reassignment surgery because I don"t have a penis any more and I'm super happy. SO PLEASE Let's speak of good cases like mine, which are the majority.