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Is Abortion Murder?

Is abortion murder?

  • Yes

    Votes: 12 24.0%
  • No

    Votes: 38 76.0%

  • Total voters
    50

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I'll concede a 6 week old fetus can't feel pain, but a 24 week old fetus evidently can feel pain. Hence, late term abortions should be banned.
Again, late term abortions are only carried out in the case of a medical emergency where the fetus and/or mother will not live. In such cases, they are medically necessary.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I'm afraid I have qualms about abortion...period.

The method of aborting early term pregnancies often involves vacuum aspiration....a rather barbaric procedure that tears a tiny fetus limb from limb.....

Sorry for the graphic nature of the pictures but it is what it is.....

This is a nine week fetus...it is 100% human.
9week_side2.jpg


And this is what a nine week vacuum aborted fetus looks like.
images


Is this what we do to unwanted babies? Where is the humanity?

That looks like about 12-16 week old fetus to me.

Source for this propaganda?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
If something contravenes the law of God, then I obey the latter.

Sounds like something ISIS would say.

Does ISIS 'love their brothers"? What about their "enemies"?

But those obeying the God of the Bible, are commanded to!
-- John 13:34-35; Matthew 5:44.

There's the difference, or should be for Christians.

-- 1 John 3:10-15

Take care, my cousin.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
And anti-abortion people accuse pro-choice people of being cynical

What do we define as life? At what point do we define when life starts? Until these are clear, there will always be a problem(and probably still after).

What criteria does a fetus meet?

-respond to their environment
-grow and change
-reproduce and have offspring
-have a complex chemistry
-maintain homeostasis
-are built of structures called cells
-pass their traits onto their offspring

Going by that list, a fetus meets the same or more criteria as an 85 year old man. The old man's growing, changing, and reproducing, passing their traits on days are pretty much behind him/done.

Most everyone has their own opinion of when life starts.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Technically it is not an individual.
Well, depends on the definition of "individual" IMHO, that's , like, 90% of the difficulty of this discussion. People insist on using leading and loaded terms that are inherently imprecise and open to interpretation and opinion, "human being" being the worst.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I doubt trees sense pain the same way as a well-developed fetus. Also, unlike, humans. there are trillions of trees of which most can easily be replenished.

So, you're okay with abortion, it just depends on timing?
Too many trees doesn't seem to be a problem. Too many humans bought up in environments where they are not wanted can be.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
To abort means to stop before it gets productively started. Murder means the killing of a person by another person with malice and no legal authority or justification. An embryo is not a person yet, by any reckoning. A fetus is not recognized as a person yet, and is in a parasitical relationship with its host, so murder would not fit. The host may designate the fetus as a welcomed guest and offer protection and sanctuary, or the host may designate the fetus as an unwelcomed parasitical intruder. Until that designation is made by the host, it is in a state of uncertainty and limbo, and the word "abort" would be more fitting, as it has not yet become a person.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Honestly ,your question makes very little sense to me. I guess we're even:)

It is like I burn a half but house and ask judge to dismiss the case because that was not a really finished house...
That is a crime against property, not a crime against a person.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Another law abiding citizen.

Yes I am. You see, I obey the laws of my country because I am a Christian. I will not own a weapon and would do no harm to anyone. However, if my government made a law that told me NOT to do what God commands, or to DO what God condemns, I will obey God first. That is what the first Christians did.

Sounds like something ISIS would say.

Killing innocent babies by tearing them limb from limb is something ISIS would do. You support that?

That is not the point. The point I made was in response to yours calling a fetus a person highlighting that it had hands, fingers, toes etc. My response thereafter was to highlight that just because something contains characteristics of a thing doesn't necessarily make it that thing hence my example with the robot with appendages.

Oh please....you are denying the humanity of a developing human being. This tiny human has no voice.....it has no rights, (unless legislators give it one) but the ones who want to end its life, have the right to destroy it, often on the flimsiest of grounds.
This new tenant is not a minor inconvenience.....it is a precious life. If you value your own life, you should value theirs as well, don't you think?

The scenario is MY daughter.

Then as I said....it is up to her parents. It would be your call, not mine.

So you're advocating traumatizing my daughter twice?

I didn't say that....I said that there are two innocent victims in that scenario. That is how I see it. I can't hate an innocent victim for something that isn't their fault. Can you?

Once for the rape, twice for having her endure 9 months of non-consensual sex that leads to birthing a child? You're very sick if you believe this.

You are letting your emotions get in the way here. I advocate nothing of the sort.....all I am doing is taking the side of the voiceless child who is treated as something to get rid of as an unwanted side effect of someone's sex life.

Rape is in a different category, but still involves another innocent victim. The child conceived deserves our sympathy too. Do you feel no compassion for them?

And how does "twice for having her endure 9 months of non-consensual sex that leads to birthing a child?" even apply here? Have you ever gone through a pregnancy? Its not that difficult for the majority of women.
I loved being pregnant! It was the most amazing experience of my life.

But, if it is your daughter and you have the law on your side, then there is no problem for you, is there? You are free to end that life, legally. But for a Christian, God's view of life is paramount.
I would never lobby government to change laws and enforce my views on others. Each must decide according to their own conscience....and let God do the judging later.

As I mentioned before, that child your daughter is (metaphorically) carrying is equally hers as well as his. That would be your own grandchild you would be destroying because of who it's father is. Sorry but each case would have to be evaluated on its own circumstances.
I refuse to see that life as worth nothing.

The underdog needs a voice...that is all I am.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Is it like a virus living off of a host?

Nah....a virus is never going to become a sentient being. Its is more like a squatter I guess. In my country they have some legal rights to take up residence in an abandoned building without the owners permission.

But with a pregnancy, the person owning the property actually put the tenant in there, and then complained when they set up house. :rolleyes: (speaking about abortion on demand for inconvenience, not for medical reasons, that is)

Rape is a whole other story. It's a very emotive topic.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I have mixed feelings about aborted 9 week old human fetuses. I'm sad they've been deprived of their development into a conscious being. However, I take comfort in knowing an aborted 9 week old fetus didn't suffer.

I am saddened about the loss of any innocent life....by accident, murder, war or abortion. It is completely disrespecting the sanctity of life itself IMO.
 
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