Why Should I Believe The Bible?

Altfish said:

So, Harry Potter is true because the J K Rowling books say so?

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Why do you make moronic comparisons?

Spartan said:

Why do you make moronic comparisons?

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Why is it moronic?

Zita said:

I don't know? is it

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Evangelicalhumanist said:

Can you demonstrate the power of either good or evil in the absence of any human involvement?

But you've just ignored all the other scripture in the world. Are you saying, and can you provide any reason for saying, that only the Bible was written under divine superintendence, while the others were not?

More, could you do so to the satisfaction of not just me, but to those who place their solid faith in their own scriptures?

Meh...why is their God instead of no God? Precisely the same question, for which you will simply invoke (this one time only, never to be offered again ladies and gentlemen?) a special exemption. Your special exemption is not justified by anything whatever.

Not "true," but reasonable to believe. Supernaturalism I certainly disbelieve, and I await (although at my age I can't wait much longer) one single valid example, which so far, tragically, nobody has provided. (That in itself ought to tell you something. It does me.)

I think the admonition to love one another is a good one, since I recognize humans as a social species, dependent upon one another for our survival. I think "turn the other cheek," may be iffy, since that will often merely empower an aggressor to behave even worse towards you. I think "take no thought for tomorrow" is a bit of nonsense that would do anyone who believed it implicitly much more harm than good.

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osgart said:

The Buddha is a real person with real teachings. All i am aware of his teachings is The Eight fold Path.

Mythology to me is mostly fantasy with some possibility of revealing truthes, or spiritual wisdoms. It can also be total rubbish as i see it.

The Bible has compelling perspectives but as a whole looks to be quite incoherent and inconsistent in its logic. It forces me to assume too much, and does not reveal character sufficiently. IMO. There seems to be no good reason for an omnipotent God to have to endure a Roman Cross just to redeem mankind.

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osgart said:

The Buddha is a real person with real teachings. All i am aware of his teachings is The Eight fold Path.

Mythology to me is mostly fantasy with some possibility of revealing truthes, or spiritual wisdoms. It can also be total rubbish as i see it.

The Bible has compelling perspectives but as a whole looks to be quite incoherent and inconsistent in its logic. It forces me to assume too much, and does not reveal character sufficiently. IMO. There seems to be no good reason for an omnipotent God to have to endure a Roman Cross just to redeem mankind.

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Screw it. Everybody's set in their ways. Every last one of you.

RedDragon94 said:

Screw it. Everybody's set in their ways. Every last one of you.

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But not you?

Evangelicalhumanist said:

But not you?

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I am a confused little man with all the facts.

tosca1 said:

Why do you think men have this incredible need to have a god?




Granted, many were born to their parents' belief system - but many rebelled too, and either questioned, or abandoned or went astray from the belief system they were brought into.
I'm one of them!

Many came back - not necessarily to the belief system they were brought up with, though.
I'm one of them!

Many too were brought up and raised by parents who are atheists/agnostics/non-believers from other religion, who eventually found Christianity.

A lot of people find God at a later day in their lives - when they're more informed, and had sincerely searched.





I don't know the mind of God.






This is the part where you show your argument is based on ignorance.

FYI, unlike atheists who are forced to remain in a small box (and, could never venture out of it without shedding their atheism) -

Christianity can follow where the evidence is.


Even if evolution is proven to be true..........

.........Christianity can OWN IT!



On the other hand.....

Atheism is a close-minded ideology or belief. They'll have to be!
They cannot make their little toes go out of that small box.
So....for all the new atheist bravado about "rationality".......new atheists cannot apply REASON!

As an example - even when science does not negate the existence of God or a Creator .......atheists ignore that very crucial fact. They cannot acknowledge or accept that.

REASON is alien to atheism.



Why do they try to distort the definition of "atheist?"
Because.....they have no wiggle room in that tiny box!

Atheists can never consider the possibility of the existence of God or a god, because if they do - they're no longer atheists........no matter how they stretch and try to distort the definition of an atheist!






INDEED!
That's why The National Academy of Sciences had singled out THEISTIC Evolution - a belief that God created the universe and all the processes that make evolution possible! Evidences from various disciplines of science show the compatibility to it!


WMAP Site FAQs






You're confusing men with God.

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You're missing the point..... The point, what is important, is reality, what is real in this world, and what is not real. But apparently that is of little importance to many I am learning. Do you have any proof that a 'god' even exists? My impression is that since so many people do believe that a god exists, therefore they assume a god exists, and they talk and act just as if a god exists. To them it is reality........ And they tell their babies that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and Humpty Dumpty and God all exist, and that's what they grow up believing. And it works, just like it has worked for thousands of years...... Truth is never sought after.......
Until now..... until science comes up with another interpretation regarding the world that they call reality.

Altfish said:

Why is it moronic?

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Jesus was a real person. Harry Potter is not.

Have you ever really studied the historical Jesus? Let me help you out with that.

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;

"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and

"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

Spartan said:

Jesus was a real person. Harry Potter is not.

Have you ever really studied the historical Jesus? Let me help you out with that.

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;

"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and

"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

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I would say the jury is still out on Jesus' existence.
There are an equal number of books doubting his existence.

Once you've proved Jesus' existence it is a whole new game trying to prove he is the son of God.

So Harry Potter is an equally valid comparison.

Altfish said:

I would say the jury is still out on Jesus' existence.
There are an equal number of books doubting his existence.

Once you've proved Jesus' existence it is a whole new game trying to prove he is the son of God.

So Harry Potter is an equally valid comparison.

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Bull. You haven't done an ounce of homework on the subject. Most skeptics like you haven't.

I doubt there's a serious historian on earth who denies Jesus of Nazareth lived.

RedDragon94 said:

Screw it. Everybody's set in their ways. Every last one of you.

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And you're not?

Spartan said:

I doubt there's a serious historian on earth who denies Jesus of Nazareth lived.

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No there isn't. Anyone who denies that Jesus existed is fighting a losing battle.

Spartan said:

Bull. You haven't done an ounce of homework on the subject. Most skeptics like you haven't.

I doubt there's a serious historian on earth who denies Jesus of Nazareth lived.

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Richard Carrier. Far more serious than most Christian "scholars".

At any rate I watched it for a bit until he mentioned Luke. He got so much wrong so fast on Luke that I gave up.

corynski said:

Greetings...... Let's see, you asked 'Why do you think men have this incredible need to have a god?' Well, let's look at it. For openers, because it's a dominant cultural phenomenon,

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For openers.....can you cite an atheist culture from the primitive past? I mean, a primitive culture that doesn't believe in a deity of any kind.

Children are born believers in God, academic claims

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Children are "born believers" in God and do not simply acquire religious beliefs through indoctrination, according to an academic.

Dr Justin Barrett, a senior researcher at the University of Oxford's Centre for Anthropology and Mind, claims that young people have a predisposition to believe in a supreme being because they assume that everything in the world was created with a purpose.

He says that young children have faith even when they have not been taught about it by family or at school, and argues that even those raised alone on a desert island would come to believe in God.

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Children are born believers in God, academic claims


Humans - except for the anomalies - are hard-wired to worship God!

Why we are born to believe in God: It's wired into the brain, says psychologist

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The findings challenge atheists such as Richard Dawkins, the author of The God Delusion, who has long argued that religious beliefs result from poor education and childhood 'indoctrination'.

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Why we are born to believe in God: It's wired into the brain, says psychologist | Daily Mail Online


I don't know where you're getting your info - Dawkins? - but you're getting disinformation.

Lol! If it's from shrilly Dawkins - you're toast!

corynski said:

Hmmmm....... You have a bad misconception regarding atheism.... Atheism says only one thing: I have no knowledge or experience of anything supernatural, I am without a belief in any deity or supernatural power. It's that simple, and it is based on reason and observation completely, while religious belief is just that, a belief not based on reason. Beliefs promise the believer all kinds of rewards, but you'll never know because the dead have yet to communicate with the living.

Tosca1: You said: "This is the part where you show your argument is based on ignorance.
FYI, unlike atheists who are forced to remain in a small box (and, could never venture out of it without shedding their atheism) -

Christianity can follow where the evidence is."

Tosca1: You are so wrong.......I'm not in any way confined to a 'small box', that's a misconception of yours, as it seems it is you who is confined to your belief in a particular 'god', a god that you have created in your mind. I prefer my mind to be open to the entire universe...... but I have no desire to create a world in my imagination as you have. But it is your leaders that have the trump card, as it is they who define Christianity, not 'God'. You've perhaps noticed that every Christian has a slightly different interpretation of belief and of 'God', until there are dozens of variations of Christianity, all because there is no basic reality to Christianity! God won't 'show up'.

And this is a classic: "As an example - even when science does not negate the existence of God or a Creator .......atheists ignore that very crucial fact. They cannot acknowledge or accept that.
REASON is alien to atheism." You can't be serious: Science can't disprove that which doesn't exist, i.e. that can't be measured! And atheists are well aware of that, but you go further and suggest that reason is alien to atheism, when in fact it is the foundation of atheism. And there is no reason involved in your religion, when there is no proof of any gods or goddesses.

Belief distorts reality is the truth of it. But consider this..... Belief is comforting, you are promised guidance and shelter and you will meet your ancestors in a place called 'heaven', where there will be no toil and you'll have no worries, etc., etc. So give the priests and the pastors your money to facilitate your transition to 'otherworldliness' when you die.

I prefer the freedom of reality, as I'm not bound by any belief, other than that I must die....... Religion and belief have seen their day, it's time for reality, and it's time to confront what actually exists. And doesn't it strike you as odd that your God is the God of three different religions, and has written three different 'holy' books? But Allah doesn't believe Mary is holy, nor is Jesus, only God is holy. An as a Christian my 'holy' book says I may kill someone worshipping the moon......

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STOP! Hold it right there.
Not because I don't want to respond.....but, because your post touches on another subject that I'll be posting soon. The premise that you hit deserves a thread of its own. We can continue there.....

Pls refer to the new thread,

QUESTION(s) TO THE ATHEIST

tosca1 said:

But we do know who the authors are!

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Stop lying. We don't know who the authors were. That's why the video felt the need to try to prove who the authors were but I am arguing that their proof was insufficient to reach such a definitive conclusion.

tosca1 said:

Surely, you don't expect a 15 minute clip to convince a non-believer? Someone who truly seek will dig some more.

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I don't, but it was the apparent intention of the video. If it had expected to inspire further research, wouldn't it have provided some references to that further information? It was either trying to do the wrong thing or trying to do the right thing, but doing it very poorly.

tosca1 said:

No, honesty is that they admitted to and/or showed those errors.
Why do they have to explain? How much more can you explain when you're caught sleeping on the job? No matter the explanation - bottom line: you were sleeping on the job.

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If I was telling you I fell asleep at work, I wouldn't just stop with that cold fact. It would generally be considered a bad thing so I'd feel the need to justify or explain it in some way. I'd say "I don't care because my boss was out of the office" or "I wasn't my fault because my neighbours had a loud party and kept me awake all night". That's the natural narrative element which appears to be missing from the Biblical examples.

tosca1 said:

Like I said - the Book is not about them!

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That's a fair argument but I feel it somewhat weakens the honest argument for it being written by eyewitnesses. If they weren't writing a conventional first-person narrative, they wouldn't necessary follow the elements of a conventional first-person narrative, including admitting their own failures in an honest portrayal of events. I'm not saying it's a complete dismissal of the point, only that it makes this entire part of the video's claims somewhat more fuzzy.

tosca1 said:

For openers.....can you cite an atheist culture from the primitive past? I mean, a primitive culture that doesn't believe in a deity of any kind.




Children are born believers in God, academic claims


Humans - except for the anomalies - are hard-wired to worship God!



Why we are born to believe in God: It's wired into the brain, says psychologist | Daily Mail Online


I don't know where you're getting your info - Dawkins? - but you're getting disinformation.

Lol! If it's from shrilly Dawkins - you're toast!

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Good Morning Tosca1......

Well, I'd say we must look to anthropology for answers to those questions dealing with pre-history, but yes, we might assume that every culture develops cosmological beliefs of some kind, be it a rain god or a wind spirit..... but I would disagree with this scholars' conclusion, I would want to see what kind of actual evidence he is using. And for reference we have Marjorie Leach's book "Guide to the Gods', which lists nearly 900 pages of all the deities of the world.

Atheism is an entirely different situation, as today it is the result of thinking and knowledge, an intellectual conclusion after examining the evidence, whereas our evolving ancestors basically lived in fear for hundreds of thousands of years, for lack of knowledge. When religion did arrive, often it was used by powerful people for their own gain. Such as the Catholic Church's distortion of religion in the Middle Ages, and how it became an instrument of terror.....

But we really can't know.........Anthropologists are faced with the question of all those thousands of years of evolution, hundreds of thousands of years back to the earliest hominids, before language, back to the time when flint tools didn't change for hundreds of years........ Anthropology reminds us that 99% of human existence was BEFORE the Bible was written, long, long before the God of Christianity arrived and 'created' everything...... We now have the intellectual ability to evaluate such beliefs, where and how they arrived to us.

Does it matter whether a deity actually exists or not? Apparently not from what the evidence suggests, and in fact maybe it's better that they don't exist in reality, but only in one's mind....... Time will tell.......

Zita said:

I think the reason why people question the bible, but not question Alexandre the great books is because Alexandre the great is not telling us how we should live and believe and follow his books or we will be damned., if I am gonna conform to something,and my life depends on it,I wanna make darn sure it's the truth before I follow it and to make sure it's all good.Another reason people question the bible is the fact it's got a lot of crazy ideas in it,things that contradict itself all the time and empty promises,cruel judgement against people ,the very people he created!!This God of the bible is down right scary!!The bible says he wiped out his own creation by flooding the earth killing innocent people for the actions of a few. People are looking at the fact there is total devastation going on in this world and the all mighty God does nothing!! Heck yea I'm confused here.This "God" of the bible is not showing us much at all in the way of Divine Love, this God has no problem seeing his people suffering,the only logical reason is that The Bible is a fake and the God that it portrays has to be fake as well. Now, here me, I didn't say I don't believe in "The Creator" "The Divine Spirit that created mankind and this Universe I said I don't believe in"God"of the book that millions follow everyday known as "The Bible".

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The Bible declares "Love is the Greatest Commandment" ... as written by some people claiming "this is what God said"
The Bible is full of stories where God fails miserably in following "HIS Greatest Commandment" ... setting a bad example

This leads me to think that:
1) God is a bit messed up; not living upto His own Commentments
2) Bible writers were a bit messed up and the Bible is a bit messed up as a consequence

I give God the benefit of the doubt ... So my guess is that the Bible writers were a bit messed up

Hence "I should NOT believe blindly what is written in the Bible"

Spartan said:

Bull. You haven't done an ounce of homework on the subject. Most skeptics like you haven't.

I doubt there's a serious historian on earth who denies Jesus of Nazareth lived.

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OK, (and I'm not conceding the fact) but let's say that Jesus existed.
What evidence is there that he rose from the dead?
What evidence is there that he is the son of God?
What contemporary evidence outside of The Bible is there for Jesus' existence? i.e. in what other books is he mentioned?

A Growing Number of Scholars Are Questioning the Historical Existence of Jesus

Even the existence of Nazareth in biblical times has not been proven.

corynski said:

Would you believe? It's the humans who create gods and goddesses...... thousands of them actually, and they've done it for thousands of years. Each cultural group indoctrinates their members with a belief system that identifies them as a member of that group. Thus no one who was not brought up in that particular culture can claim to be a member without knowing all the beliefs. Witness it....... everyone..... parents, pastors, friends.... all begin to teach you 'cultural beliefs', long before you can think and reason. It's actually 'brainwashing' and every culture does it. Beliefs are the 'glue' that hold a cultural group together. They have existed for thousands of years, from the earliest times of wind and rain spirits

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..and i would include the 'religion', of atheistic naturalism in that cultural Indoctrination pattern. As the latest and greatest pop religion of the day, with exclusive power to indoctrinate in State institutions, with NO competition, it is the new cultural belief standard.

Welcome to Progresso World.

To assume, 'All gods are human constructs!', you would have to 'know' that there is no God.. that we live in a godless, purely material universe.

How does one 'know!' such a thing?

All i can observe, is a lot of conflicting opinions, about the nature of the universe. How is a 'no God!' opinion any different?


Isn't that just another man made construct speculating about something we cannot really know? Aka, a belief?