Einstein’s views on socialism

Revoltingest · Jul 28, 2018

ADigitalArtist said:
No it isnt, as we have a very weak basis for socialized government compared to social democracies and other European models of democratic socialism. That you can't make the distinction without an all or nothing clause is a failure on your part, not the terms.

To me it's like going up to a gender fluid person and saying 'but look how many dictionaries and encyclopedias say you are either male or female!' That argument is also dismissive of nuance of modern study and also presenting a false dilemma.

Your analogy isn't apt at all.
Dictionary definitions for male & female get the bulk of applications correct.
Exceptions are typically complicated melding of the two.
But with "socialism", no country offered as an example fits the definition.
Moreover, those which do fit, fans of socialism often don't even acknowledge
s examples. And note the OP, in which Einstein excoriates capitalism...which
points to socialism which eschews it as the topic.

As I see it, the fans want some idealized theoretical version of socialism, based
not upon what actually occurs in the real world, but rather something which they
imagine socialism should be. And that isn't socialism at all (as defined), but
rather capitalism with an extensive social safety net, eg, Sweden, Canuckistan
(oft cited examples).

Any comment on the Scandanivian economy style Wikipedia entry I cited earlier?
The term "social democracy" seems better. But even "democratic socialism" beats
plain old "socialism".

Revoltingest · Jul 28, 2018

ADigitalArtist said:
No it isnt, as we have a very weak basis for socialized government compared to social democracies and other European models of democratic socialism. That you can't make the distinction without an all or nothing clause is a failure on your part, not the terms.

We'd still be socialist....just not enuf for your taste.
We have high taxes & a big safety net.
(It's just poorly designed....."incompetent socialism", you might say.)

To me it's like going up to a gender fluid person and saying 'but look how many dictionaries and encyclopedias say you are either male or female!' That argument is also dismissive of nuance of modern study and also presenting a false dilemma.

Bad analogy again.
(You should stay away from those.)
I explained why in my preceding post.

ADigitalArtist · Jul 28, 2018

I'm tired of repeating myself. If you dont think democratic socialism is 'real' socialism then you're just plain wrong, academically and politically and philosophically speaking. Not worth going over it more.

Revoltingest · Jul 28, 2018

ADigitalArtist said:
I'm tired of repeating myself. If you dont think democratic socialism is 'real' socialism then you're just plain wrong, academically and politically and philosophically speaking. Not worth going over it more.

Then you disagree with Einstein too.
Per the quote in the OP, he wanted no capitalism.
But your positive examples of "socialism" have oodles of capitalism.

At least we have this in common...we both know better than that goofball, Einstein.

Estro Felino · Jul 31, 2018

Americans First

Lyndon · Jul 31, 2018

Seems like you should worry about Italians and leave Americans to do their own thing!!

Estro Felino · Aug 22, 2018

There is democracy only when you're not rich enough to buy another off, and not poor enough to be sold off.

Daemon Sophic · May 22, 2019

A question for everybody here who keeps arguing about socialism, while defining it as communism, and dragging the US into whatever “it” is.

¿What candidates can you name, with evidence, who are promoting socialism as the method of governance in the United States, to the point that they wish to remove all capitalism and replace it with some sort of communist economic frame-work?

I ask because so far no candidate running in 2020 has ever described him/herself as being a communist, or wanting a pure socialist state. Nada.
Even Mr. B. Sanders has made it clear that he is looking to strengthen the economic ‘safety nets’ of our capitalistic society, calling for more of a “socialist democracy”, which of course we already are, using capitalism as our economic basis. :shrug:

I have seen and heard quotes from the Don the Con and his anti-American lapdog Mitch McConnell, that the Democrats are for pure socialist governance; but as usual they are blatantly lying.
So why are these twits, and their ill-informed fanatical followers getting so worked up over something that has never happened? Except as a nice propaganda tool to whip the foolish into a lather?

Anyone? Anyone?

Twilight Hue · May 22, 2019

Nakosis said:
Einstein had three bones to pick with capitalism. The first is that “Man is, at one and the same time, a solitary being and a social being.” He explains his stance that a person is at once an individual and at the same time rather dependent on society for a great many things. However, despite the necessity of a high functioning society for our wellbeing, he sees capitalism as encouraging a mad drive for personal success at the expense of society and leading us to educate our children in a way that reinforces this behavior.

This damages the individual, he argues. It drives us to educate ourselves only to find a job and not to fully develop beyond that. Furthermore, it can leave the individual in a constant state of fear over the risk of losing their livelihood, which leads to Einstein's second objection...

...Lastly, he sees the profit motive as a cause of great suffering. Going so far as to say that, “The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.”

Why Albert Einstein was a socialist

I personally think Einstein was a moderate, not a socialist at heart. He saw a proper balance.

Socialists don't respect individual freedom and clearly prefer the deep state overall. One look at the People's Republic of New York and California should be enough to see that.

metis · May 22, 2019

There are various forms of socialism, including democratic socialism that would very much object to there being a "deep state".

The Reverend Bob · May 22, 2019

metis said:
There are various forms of socialism, including democratic socialism that would very much object to there being a "deep state".

I only like socialism when it directly benefits me otherwise I don't like it. So what kind of socialist does that make me?

metis · May 22, 2019

The Reverend Bob said:
I only like socialism when it directly benefits me otherwise I don't like it. So what kind of socialist does that make me?

"Self-centered socialism"?

The irony is that if one understands the history of socialism and why it developed in the first place, there cannot be such a thing as with the above without bastardizing the concept.

Nakosis · May 22, 2019

Nowhere Man said:
I personally think Einstein was a moderate, not a socialist at heart. He saw a proper balance.

Socialists don't respect individual freedom and clearly prefer the deep state overall. One look at the People's Republic of New York and California should be enough to see that.

Politicians in Calif see themselves as world leaders. They set the correct direction for others to follow.

Maybe the folks in NY see themselves the same way. I wonder if it is just an echo chamber though.

The Reverend Bob · May 22, 2019

Nakosis said:
Politicians in Calif see themselves as world leaders.

We are the 7th largest economy in the world

The Reverend Bob · May 22, 2019

metis said:
"Self-centered socialism"?

The irony is that if one understands the history of socialism and why it developed in the first place, there cannot be such a thing as with the above without bastardizing the concept.

I think it is par for the course because socialism isn't necessarily based on compassion and altruism but on a group of self-centered individuals forming a collective to benefit themselves. If an individual doesn't benefit from socialism then why become a socialist? It would be irrational to do so.

Revoltingest · May 22, 2019

The Reverend Bob said:
I think it is par for the course because socialism isn't necessarily based on compassion and altruism but on a group of self-centered individuals forming a collective to benefit themselves. If an individual doesn't benefit from socialism then why become a socialist? It would be irrational to do so.

Let's check out dictionary.com.

Socialism....
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of
the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution,
of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. is the "people" owning
the means of production.

Capitalism....
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means
of production, distribution,and exchange of wealth is made and maintained
chiefly by private individuals or corporations,especially as contrasted to
cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

But they have one thing in common....
Neither definition requires good intentions, kindness, competence, fairness,
success, equality, or liberty. If one values those things, tis useful to examine
actual implementation of those systems in various countries, both historical
& current. See what trends emerge under each.

Lyndon · May 22, 2019

Another stupid definition of socialism, when what we are actually talking about is social democracy, or democratic socialism. All the opposition can come up with is straw man arguments against the type of socialism linked to communism, which of course has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

The Emperor of Mankind · May 22, 2019

Nowhere Man said:
I personally think Einstein was a moderate, not a socialist at heart. He saw a proper balance.

Socialists don't respect individual freedom and clearly prefer the deep state overall. One look at the People's Republic of New York and California should be enough to see that.

I can't hear your accusations over the sound of conservatives across America removing womens' bodily autonomy through the vehicle of the law.

For all that conservatives prate about hating Big Government, they sure do love it invading peoples' bodies & bedrooms.

Father Heathen · May 22, 2019

metis said:
There are various forms of socialism, including democratic socialism that would very much object to there being a "deep state".

People have been trying to inform and educate him on the subject for a while now, but he's hellbent on using "socialism" to mean anything that conservatives dislike or don't understand. I'm sure he would consider the weather socialist if it rained on his cook-out.

Shadow Link · May 23, 2019

Einstein’s views on socialism

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