• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Can someone answer this?

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
We do not have hyenas in Norway :) But we do have wolf, So many are afriad of the wolf here, Personally i have encounted wolf 3-4 times, and honestly even when it was a small group of wolfs, they are more afraid of me then i was of them. But ofcourse if i had shown aggressivness toward them they would be really dangeroues to me. So i think it has a lot to do with how we react to each situation that occure, But yes i do understand your viewpoint too :)
Indo-Aryans were concerned about wolves (they called them 'Vrika'. They prayed to the Goddess of night to keep the wolves away. I am not an Aryan racist but interested in Aryan history as the religion of Vedas is a part of Hinduism.

"Yāvayā vṛikyaṃ* vṛikaṃ yāvayā stenamūrmye l athā naḥsutarā bhava ll"
Keep off the she-wolf and the wolf, O Urmya (night), keep the thief away; Easy be thou for us to pass.
Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXVII. Night., Verse 6
* vṛikyaṃ (of the vṛika, wolf) - she-wolf.
But if i remember correctly less then an hour after the crash, they was sure it was Bin laden??? How is that even possible? in other cases it takes long time to deside who was behind.
There are intelligence inputs. Then a Pakistani was one of the main conspirators, Khalid Sheikh Mohammad. The attack was not by Pakistanis only but people from many countries were involved.
September 11 attacks - Wikipedia
 
Last edited:

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

People are fickle.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
So in a way it is fear of the unknown
I agree. Tribalism and fear of the unknown are strong factors in acceptance of the new, strange or unusual. Whether it be people or ideas.

It is not solely on fear of the unknown though. Sometimes another group is out to get you. You may have something they want or be in the way of something they wish to achieve. Examples exist throughout history of encounters like that. It lead to survival, but also to an underlying suspicion that exists in some of us. Maybe all of us, but at different levels.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
If that was the case, it would be my self to blame for getting in the path of the lion. A lion only act out of search for food, or if it feels treated. but also out of teritorial view

Animals I see as amoral, for the most part. Sometimes animals seem to act morally. So I don't see much reason to hate animals for acting according to their nature.

Humans are really animals too but are supposed to have morals. For me, I have come to accept other people are simply acting according to their nature as well. So really no reason to hate them for that either.

Still the political divide between Republicans and Democrats I see as a difference in moral views. For example Republicans generally see illegal immigration as immoral. Whereas Democrats see building a wall as immoral. Muslims see the worship of a human as immoral, whatever divinity that human may have. For Christians it's immoral to not worship Jesus. Obviously one view is a threat to the other.

I was thinking, maybe an extreme example but cannibals, it is perfectly moral to go about eating other people, most everyone else, eating other folks is highly immoral.

Myself, being a moral nihilist, I don't expect other people to adhere to a specific set of moral values. So I don't feel a need to hate other people. Even though they may do me harm. Doesn't mean I won't try to protect myself against them, but no need to hate them.

Hate to me seems to require a lot of unnecessary emotional energy. I don't see that we personally benefit from hating other folks. However, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe hate is necessary. I just don't see it myself.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Hehe i never been in a heard :) always been the one who manage my life on my own without fear for others
I see value in learning about new people, their ways and new ideas. But I think it is always wise, upon initial introductions, to remember that not every new person or group may have benign interests or be what they appear. As you get to know each other, tribal differences can dissolve where meeting and even joining are a mutual, genuine and beneficial development.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't think hate and fear are the same. It doesn't feel like the same emotion anyway. I can see where fear may lead to hate though.
I think fear can lead to hate, but that step can be bypassed with training and indoctrination. You can go directly to hate under those circumstances. Even if there was no fear to begin with, a bad encounter can lead to hatred. Even where that encounter may have been by accident or misunderstanding. Some people do not need much provocation to fear or hate.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I think fear can lead to hate, but that step can be bypassed with training and indoctrination. You can go directly to hate under those circumstances. Even if there was no fear to begin with, a bad encounter can lead to hatred. Even where that encounter may have been by accident or misunderstanding. Some people do not need much provocation to fear or hate.

I can see that, I just don't see any personal benefit in hate. I suppose the benefit is in getting one group to hate another. Then that group is much easier to manipulate.

If there is no benefit in hating someone else, then why do it?

Like you said, some don't need much provocation. Just seems odd that we go about doing something there's no real benefit to for ourselves as far as I can tell.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I can see that, I just don't see any personal benefit in hate. I suppose the benefit is in getting one group to hate another. Then that group is much easier to manipulate.

If there is no benefit in hating someone else, then why do it?

Like you said, some don't need much provocation. Just seems odd that we go about doing something there's no real benefit to for ourselves as far as I can tell.
I am a hypocrite on hate. I see it as a very negative emotion that is sometimes self-sustaining to the point that the stimulus that formed it may no longer have any significance, but the hate can remain alive. Eating up time and energy better placed elsewhere for positive reasons. I say hypocrite, because I have harbored hate of my own, even while acknowledging what I just said. Hate may even have a place, but it is very limited and must be kept in a constrained perspective so that it does not get a life of its own.

It is reflective conversations like this that help me down-regulate my own hatreds and even eliminate them.

I was taught that it is instant gratification that has no real long term benefits and can have serious long term detriments. One of the influences on my thinking stems from reading Stranger in a Strange Land when I was 10. The concept of hate that was attributed to the Martians in that story was something that goes beyond my own understanding of the term. They were described as understanding something so deeply that it became a part of them and they of it. That understanding could prompt action to excise that which is hated. That such a hatred could exist is sort of staggering, yet groups have contrived to achieve approximations of staggering in the past.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
In my understanding fear and hate are both attachments, Fear is attached to not knowing outcome. and hate can be attachment to ego.

I guess that makes sense. I got to hate them there folks that be threatening my ego.

Being attached to an ego, not beneficial. Just gotta bring that news to the world and solve all of the hate issues. :)

I can see this is something Buddhism tries to address. I wonder if other religions attempt to address this.

Was Jesus a detached fellow? Seems like it, but not sure how well that gets implemented in Christianity. o_O

But seems like maybe you answered your question. Hate, fear the consequences of attachment?
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
But then a question arises. If someone hate us, or say bad about us or have different opinion then we have, should be take it personal? I would say no we should not take it personal because it is the person who say it toward us that is say they hate us. So its kind of them who has the problem, is it not?

That's up to the individual, personally I tend to write them off as unimportant no matter their position.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I guess that makes sense. I got to hate them there folks that be threatening my ego.

Being attached to an ego, not beneficial. Just gotta bring that news to the world and solve all of the hate issues. :)

I can see this is something Buddhism tries to address. I wonder if other religions attempt to address this.

Was Jesus a detached fellow? Seems like it, but not sure how well that gets implemented in Christianity. o_O

But seems like maybe you answered your question. Hate, fear the consequences of attachment?
I belive all religions do actually teach detatchment yes :) And yes Jesus must have been detached to attachments in simmilar way as Buddha, because both was enlighten beings (in my understanding)
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
One of the influences on my thinking stems from reading Stranger in a Strange Land when I was 10. The concept of hate that was attributed to the Martians in that story was something that goes beyond my own understanding of the term. They were described as understanding something so deeply that it became a part of them and they of it. That understanding could prompt action to excise that which is hated. That such a hatred could exist is sort of staggering, yet groups have contrived to achieve approximations of staggering in the past.

That's about the time I read it too. I didn't think much about it going through life but looking back I can see now how that book influenced much of my thought processes.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
That's about the time I read it too. I didn't think much about it going through life but looking back I can see now how that book influenced much of my thought processes.
Ten was a significant age in my life. I was reading everything I could get my hands on, including some things that mom and dad would not have been pleased about had they known. My first adult western. Well the first in a rather limited number, I have probably only read two or three that fit that genre.

Heinlein and Asimov could be described as my gateway authors to the world of science fiction literature. I was already predisposed through Star Trek and Lost in Space.

That book influenced my thinking in a lot of ways. I still have not read the unedited version. I have wondered if I should, but so much time has passed and my mind is not that of the 10 year old me. So even rereading the edition that I did would be from a completely different perspective.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

My answer to this is that we have truth authorities in our life which give us rules to live by and to a large extent we take those rules to heart as children and learn that in many or most cases they are of value as we grow into adulthood. If our range of experience does not transcend that of our "authorities" then we live happily within that range of understanding.

But when we have an experience outside of that we have to call into question that whole sense of the authority of knowledge that our very own selves ASSUMED was sufficient and more than sufficient. This is a deeply personal and difficult task.

But until we reach that point, the unknown or the "other" will be easily treated as our peers in knowledge treat them and rumor and story and assumptions will go unchecked.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I fear that at some point you will have to accept that Islaam is by no means a typical nor generic creed; that it is very much about encouraging adherents to act in certain ways and to hold certain beliefs, not all of them very defensible; and that far too much oppression, violence and extremism has been encouraged by it, despite its own vehement denials. They are just that: denials.

The Qur'an says a whole lot about how Muslims should treat others (non-Muslims) and demand from them. It is only reasonable to learn of it, to listen to facts and statements of intent, and take them into account.

Muslims themselves, being usually raised into such an environment and taught to avoid questioning things to any significant extent, will of course be reluctant to admit that those problems exist. They want to keep peace in the family even if it takes raising hell on others, and they may well have convinced themselves that such is the Will of God.



That may happen too, and probably does, but perhaps only very rarely. How often do you see similar attitudes towards other minorities? Say, Orthodox Christians, Hindus, or Sikhs? I know that Sikhs are sometimes mistaken for Muslims and suffer accordingly, but otherwise religious discrimination proper seems to be all but gone in most communities - and frankly, at the same time I have also come to wonder if worries about Muslim communities even qualify as mistrust of religious groups.

Far more often than not, the simple existence of different beliefs does not even weight into the situation. The true problems are of a whole different level, and it just happens that Muslims like to frame them as being religiously motivated or "necessary".

I urge you not to assume that Islaam is "just a different religion". It is not. I do not see that it even qualifies as a religion at all - it is all about idolatry of monotheism, which is a very different thing from religion.



It is tiny depending on where you live. Not so tiny otherwise. As for radicalism and extremism... the creed is called "submission" for a reason. Despite being easily one of most impressive demographic groups in the whole of human history, Muslims seem to be helpless in even attempting to discourage their own extremists, and that is not an immaterial fact.



Obviously, there is indeed no such need.



You should probably take into account that a huge percentage of the Qur'an is actually about the proper ways of discriminating non-Muslims (and women).

My sense is that in place like India and Pakistan there is a great deal of mistrust on the part of Hindus for Muslims and vice versa...enough at one point to divide the nation into those two separate nations.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Ten was a significant age in my life. I was reading everything I could get my hands on, including some things that mom and dad would not have been pleased about had they known. My first adult western. Well the first in a rather limited number, I have probably only read two or three that fit that genre.

Heinlein and Asimov could be described as my gateway authors to the world of science fiction literature. I was already predisposed through Star Trek and Lost in Space.

That book influenced my thinking in a lot of ways. I still have not read the unedited version. I have wondered if I should, but so much time has passed and my mind is not that of the 10 year old me. So even rereading the edition that I did would be from a completely different perspective.

For me, as I am watching the original Star Trek series for the first time since when I was a teenager, I can see how deeply attitudes towards "others" are ingrained in the values of the protagonists of that show. Just to see the international cast on the bridge, especially in the third season says a great deal to a young mind about the equality of people. For that reason I see Star Trek as having a deep influence on many people as far as their sense of morality is concerned. But I am sure that science fiction and superhero comics also probably played a strong role as well.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
The kind of hate that hates innocence is without reason or justified cause. If innocence is the full intention to do good then how can anybody hate such people?

I believe its called envy, false pride, lust for power, and pleasure. Anything that is the will to destroy love and freedom. Anything that seeks an end to care for others. It is the will against lifting other people up. False pride makes the claim of superiority to love. It is not true pride which is love of moral excellence, and self esteem in full deserve. False pride considers love to be worthless and weak.
 
Top