Can someone answer this?

More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

Amanaki said:

More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

Click to expand...

It's just Tribalism - Wikipedia. Which is apart of evolution and human nature. We have our tribes of like minded people and we stick to those for safety. Outsiders/stranger that differ and/or not apart of the tribe are often feared/viewed as threats.

Civilized folk are supposed to learn to manage this part of our nature. But being such an important part of our survival through the ages. It is deeply engrained in all of us. So to resist it is almost as hard as resisting to breath.

You see this predominately in politics these days, aptly named "Political Tribalism".

Enoch07 said:

It's just Tribalism - Wikipedia. Which is apart of evolution and human nature. We have our tribes of like minded people and we stick to those for safety. Outsiders/stranger that differ and/or not apart of the tribe are often feared/viewed as threats.

Civilized folk are supposed to learn to manage this part of our nature. But being such an important part of our survival through the ages. It is deeply engrained in all of us. So to resist it is almost as hard as resisting to breath.

You see this predominately in politics these days, aptly named "Political Tribalism".

Click to expand...

So in a way it is fear of the unknown

Amanaki said:

So in a way it is fear of the unknown

Click to expand...

Yes, basically.

Stick to the herd, strength in numbers, fear and avoid the unknown/unfamiliar, attack/defend the herd from the unknown/unfamiliar.

Enoch07 said:

Yes, basically.

Stick to the herd, strength in numbers, fear and avoid the unknown/unfamiliar, attack/defend the herd from the unknown/unfamiliar.

Click to expand...

Hehe i never been in a heard always been the one who manage my life on my own without fear for others

Amanaki said:

Hehe i never been in a heard always been the one who manage my life on my own without fear for others

Click to expand...

Same, an island onto myself. But probably for different reasons than you. But either way, I'm free of the bane of tribalism/racism/bigotry. So even if it was a rocky road to get there, I'll take it.

One of the reason i open the OP is because of the more and more seen hustle toward the muslim people and countries where Islam is rising. There can be said things of those who do wrong deeds but those things happen in many areas of society, but of some reason Muslims are attacked and looked down on just because they have a different religion and world view.
I disagree in many things that happens in those countries when it come to terror and killings, but that is a tiny part of muslims who get radical and extreme. And there is no need to hate every person who seem him/her self as a muslim. Nor is it needed to hate or discriminate other religious people, or those who has no religion they follow.

Amanaki said:

Nor is it needed to hate or discriminate other religious people, or those who has no religion they follow.

Click to expand...

I agree, and while the majority of us can have civil discourse, and even disagree time to time, we can resolve differences peacefully.

But as you pointed out there is always that small % of zealots, whether they be Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, or whatevs, that allow their tribalistic nature to rule them. Then that sets off the tribalistic nature of whoever did what to who, and then we are in the thick of a viscous cycle, that perpetuates itself.

But it is what it is I guess. Rationality is a bad word nowadays. So we are all just doomed I guess.

Amanaki said:

More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

Click to expand...

There is always interdependent origination to consider. And certainly, actual prejudice very much exists.

But beyond that, there are two different matters here, although they may converge and often do.

Fear or hatred towards whole groups without clear events justifying them tend to be a result of a perception of threatened access to some form of resource, perhaps even an abstract one such as language or a general "way of life". Political discourse and action may both create, rise and diminish that kind of worry.

Religious groups, however, are often very motivated and not always in a respectable way. It does not make sense to wait until one has become a direct victim of any misguidances that they may present before forming an opinion and perhaps acting on it.

Amanaki said:

One of the reason i open the OP is because of the more and more seen hustle toward the muslim people and countries where Islam is rising. There can be said things of those who do wrong deeds but those things happen in many areas of society, but of some reason Muslims are attacked and looked down on just because they have a different religion and world view.
I disagree in many things that happens in those countries when it come to terror and killings, but that is a tiny part of muslims who get radical and extreme. And there is no need to hate every person who seem him/her self as a muslim. Nor is it needed to hate or discriminate other religious people, or those who has no religion they follow.

Click to expand...

Being hostile towards individuals or the muslim people as a whole makes little sense. For the most part its muslims bombing other muslims and even in western countries they are just as much random victims as anyone else, people that do terror and blow up others, do not see other muslims as "true" muslims. Just as some Christians don't see JW as Christians either.

The issue and what people should be concerned about is how the religions are being used to cause ignorant and it almost happens in all religions, so these views or policies that are used to brainwash people and are based on absolutely nothing besides ignorant, are what should be fought, because it removes any chance of debating or finding solutions based on reason, that would actually be morally responsable or have a chance of it at least.

Which is not easy either, as there is basically two ways to open ones mind for religious people, either they realize that they are being manipulated into believing what the religions is telling them and they just follow along because they are being told to or the religions them self, change their policies and the followers will adapt to them.

And this seems to be the same for all religions, whether you are talking muslims that does terror or you have Christians that want to make abortions illegal by law or is against the use of condom. All these views share one thing in common, which is that they are based on ignorance rather than reason, which is a shame.

Amanaki said:

One of the reason i open the OP is because of the more and more seen hustle toward the muslim people and countries where Islam is rising.

Click to expand...

I fear that at some point you will have to accept that Islaam is by no means a typical nor generic creed; that it is very much about encouraging adherents to act in certain ways and to hold certain beliefs, not all of them very defensible; and that far too much oppression, violence and extremism has been encouraged by it, despite its own vehement denials. They are just that: denials.

The Qur'an says a whole lot about how Muslims should treat others (non-Muslims) and demand from them. It is only reasonable to learn of it, to listen to facts and statements of intent, and take them into account.

Muslims themselves, being usually raised into such an environment and taught to avoid questioning things to any significant extent, will of course be reluctant to admit that those problems exist. They want to keep peace in the family even if it takes raising hell on others, and they may well have convinced themselves that such is the Will of God.

There can be said things of those who do wrong deeds but those things happen in many areas of society, but of some reason Muslims are attacked and looked down on just because they have a different religion and world view.

Click to expand...

That may happen too, and probably does, but perhaps only very rarely. How often do you see similar attitudes towards other minorities? Say, Orthodox Christians, Hindus, or Sikhs? I know that Sikhs are sometimes mistaken for Muslims and suffer accordingly, but otherwise religious discrimination proper seems to be all but gone in most communities - and frankly, at the same time I have also come to wonder if worries about Muslim communities even qualify as mistrust of religious groups.

Far more often than not, the simple existence of different beliefs does not even weight into the situation. The true problems are of a whole different level, and it just happens that Muslims like to frame them as being religiously motivated or "necessary".

I urge you not to assume that Islaam is "just a different religion". It is not. I do not see that it even qualifies as a religion at all - it is all about idolatry of monotheism, which is a very different thing from religion.

I disagree in many things that happens in those countries when it come to terror and killings, but that is a tiny part of muslims who get radical and extreme.

Click to expand...

It is tiny depending on where you live. Not so tiny otherwise. As for radicalism and extremism... the creed is called "submission" for a reason. Despite being easily one of most impressive demographic groups in the whole of human history, Muslims seem to be helpless in even attempting to discourage their own extremists, and that is not an immaterial fact.

And there is no need to hate every person who seem him/her self as a muslim.

Click to expand...

Obviously, there is indeed no such need.

Nor is it needed to hate or discriminate other religious people, or those who has no religion they follow.

Click to expand...

You should probably take into account that a huge percentage of the Qur'an is actually about the proper ways of discriminating non-Muslims (and women).

LuisDantas said:

I fear that at some point you will have to accept that Islaam is by no means a typical nor generic creed; that it is very much about encouraging adherents to act in certain ways and to hold certain beliefs, not all of them very defensible; and that far too much oppression, violence and extremism has been encouraged by it, despite its own vehement denials. They are just that: denials.

The Qur'an says a whole lot about how Muslims should treat others (non-Muslims) and demand from them. It is only reasonable to learn of it, to listen to facts and statements of intent, and take them into account.

Muslims themselves, being usually raised into such an environment and taught to avoid questioning things to any significant extent, will of course be reluctant to admit that those problems exist. They want to keep peace in the family even if it takes raising hell on others, and they may well have convinced themselves that such is the Will of God.



That may happen too, and probably does, but perhaps only very rarely. How often do you see similar attitudes towards other minorities? Say, Orthodox Christians, Hindus, or Sikhs? I know that Sikhs are sometimes mistaken for Muslims and suffer accordingly, but otherwise religious discrimination proper seems to be all but gone in most communities - and frankly, at the same time I have also come to wonder if worries about Muslim communities even qualify as mistrust of religious groups.

Far more often than not, the simple existence of different beliefs does not even weight into the situation. The true problems are of a whole different level, and it just happens that Muslims like to frame them as being religiously motivated or "necessary".

I urge you not to assume that Islaam is "just a different religion". It is not. I do not see that it even qualifies as a religion at all - it is all about idolatry of monotheism, which is a very different thing from religion.



It is tiny depending on where you live. Not so tiny otherwise. As for radicalism and extremism... the creed is called "submission" for a reason. Despite being easily one of most impressive demographic groups in the whole of human history, Muslims seem to be helpless in even attempting to discourage their own extremists, and that is not an immaterial fact.



Obviously, there is indeed no such need.



You should probably take into account that a huge percentage of the Qur'an is actually about the proper ways of discriminating non-Muslims (and women).

Click to expand...

Thank you for your good answer
I do not say all muslims are good or that they do not do wrong. And ofcourse it is ok to make critique of those who do wrong. But what i do not agree in is that we can take every muslim under same umbrella and say everyone is bad. Because that is not a right view.

Personally i do not fear any muslim or any other religious individ or religion. Ofcourse we should not go around killing those who are not agree with our own views.
A lot of cultural issues has been mixed in to many religions and maybe this is where things go wrong? I do not know.

But it is the constant negative view of islam that i wish we can end. Personally i have both met and been friends with many muslims both in Norway, but also in other parts of the world.

I do not have all the answers to what we can do. But maybe we can start with seeing each others as human beings and not Muslim, Christian, Hindu or Buddhist?

Amanaki said:

More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

Click to expand...

so...if I don't hurt.....you....

you won't hate me?

and if I profess what you believe to be a lie.....causing others to believe as I do...

no harm to you.....right?
no harm to you and you won't hate me?

Thief said:

so...if I don't hurt.....you....

you won't hate me?

and if I profess what you believe to be a lie.....causing others to believe as I do...

no harm to you.....right?
no harm to you and you won't hate me?

Click to expand...

I have no reason to harm even those who should harm me in any way or form, And i have no reason to hate them.
If you/others look at what i say or do as a lie, that is ok to me,, you are free to think say what you wish toward me.

Amanaki said:

More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

Click to expand...

It comes because propanganda makes people hate others and if one is ignorant than one is easily fooled by propaganda and gets brainwashed into doing inhuman and evil things.

Amanaki said:

More then once i have experienced that people express fear or hate toward someone or groups they have not met or experienced them self in life. How can it be that a person show so much hate toward someone who has not harmed this person who show hate?

And some people show hate toward religious groups they have not been harmed by them self?

Click to expand...

There is very little original knowledge, so we learn at an early age to listen to what others tell us. It's a natural phenomena that changes at puberty, but much can be retained too. If Mom, Dad, teachers, neighbours, friends keep repeating hate, one would expect nothing less.

Another part of the dynamics is connected to groups that culturally choose to isolate themselves. This can create barriers which then perpetuate misunderstanding.

A good example are the Jews. Their culture is productive and their religion is peaceful toward others. However, it is also exclusionary in the sense, one has to be part of the tribe for full acceptance. To the outsider, even if you are opened minded toward people, you have to remain on the outside, to some degree. This creates a barrier with respect to a full meeting of the minds and hearts, which can then result in the imagination filling in the blanks. Exclusion creates it own form of segregation reality. This impacts Jews all over the world and even creates friction in their home country.

When I was younger, my home town was composed of loosening pockets of ethnic groups, with each ethnic group dominating a part of the city. As a child, my generation all spoke English, due to our common education and common youthful American culture. Many of the older generations still spoke their native tongues and retained many of their cultural customs. This self segregation, city wide, made it harder for the older generations to blend with each other. There was a level of bias and mistrust.

Our younger generation, by having a common culture and language, became a bridge for each other. As children and friends of each other, you were not a threat to any of the pockets, and would be allowed inside to see the secret handshakes of each others cultures. This broke the ice by opening eyes and doors.

This self segregation affect is occurring, again in the US, because of immigration that is not being followed by assimilation. The Progressive education system teaches each ethnic group in their native languages.This perpetuates pockets of closed culture within the majority culture. Even if you are opened minded, on either side of the barrier, language barriers reinforce systematic unknowns, that can trigger primitive fear and mistrust.

It makes no sense why the Democrats, say they are for acceptance, yet have chose an immigration policy leading to self segregation; ethnic diversity. Ethnic diversity is designed to perpetuate a level of misunderstanding. They then blame majority people, who are shut out, in their own home town. My guess is the goal is to divide people, and then capitalize on the induced fear and mistrust.

Legal and illegal immigration have different impacts in terms of the unconscious fear. Legal immigration requires a long pre-assimilation process, Illegal immigration, can be done on a whim. There is less time for assimilation, while breaking the law to enter the country, can create a sense of guilt, in otherwise honest people.This can compound the need to self segregate. The Democrats encourage segregation and the mistrust this can create. Blaming the majority, for human nature, further helps to divide the majority, from the self segregated.

I think a lot of it is lack of education of these other religions. All they see is what has been presented to them on the news or by word of mouth. If you hear that a Muslim group was responsible for a bombing then that means all Muslims are the same as those doing the bombing. A picture is painted for us about these groups/religions and that's what we choose to go by instead of doing the research and educating ourselves about them. I was raised as a Christian and was blind towards other religions and I was very judgmental towards towards them until I did some research on my own. Never in a million years would I have thought that Hinduism would be a religion that would fit me like it does until I found out more about it. Just last night I was talking to my sister about my choice to pursue Hinduism and just seeing how she reacted to the news was astounding. She acted as if I was making the biggest mistake of my life because, you know, Hinduism is not Christianity. I asked what she knew about the religion and she said she really didn't know much at all. So her action of being completely against Hinduism was because of her lack of knowledge. That's what creates hatred and prejudices against people of other religions/groups.

Amanaki said:

So in a way it is fear of the unknown

Click to expand...

I don't think it's so much fear of the unknown but more fear of change or difference. To accept other's beliefs sometimes mean that you may have to accept that your truth may not be the only truth out there.

Vinayaka said:

There is very little original knowledge, so we learn at an early age to listen to what others tell us. It's a natural phenomena that changes at puberty, but much can be retained too. If Mom, Dad, teachers, neighbours, friends keep repeating hate, one would expect nothing less.

Click to expand...

I think you are right, also as far as I know, Islam doesn't have an overall direction, if im not mistaken. Meaning like the Pope or some authority who "decide" how the texts should be understood.

So anyone can pretty much interpret the scriptures as they want, at least that is how I understood the overall issue with Islam vs Christianity. Also why every muslim, can call another muslim a non muslim, if they don't follow the scriptures as they think they should. It obviously also allow for all the nut cases who uses the scriptures to cause harm to others.

But the same thing could be said about the bible, if people really wanted, they could use it to preach hate as well, there are countless of examples of that, but it rarely gets passed cult status.

I think JW and the harm of not wanting to receive blood and shunning other members is probably the closes you get to it being misused and hurtful. Even though you can find support for it in the bible, not the blood thing, that is clearly made up, but shunning I think you could argue for is fair enough based on the bible.