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Pro-Life by most really mean Pro-Birth

Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
viole said:
Alright then. If that is true, then the day after pill does not abort anything. Not sure what our pro-lifers think with their obsession for conception and such.

So, lets move to 10 days. Any problems with that?

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...

I have found that pro-lifers seem to think that once the magical sperm hits the equally magical ovum, that instantly a fully-formed tiny little human being appears.

Replete with a tiny human soul.

And has microscopic fingers, toes, organs, the whole bit....

And, like a miniature Aquaman? Swims by pumping it's tiny arms and legs, to find a Magical Home in the welcoming Uterus-- not unlike a Magical Garden.

Or something very much like that scenario...

It'd be laughable, except that they are seriously intent on punishing women stopping all abortions--even the ones they only imagine.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Bob the Unbeliever said:
Then why the projection that I am am angry? I do enjoy writing, with an emotional style, and I do get excited on occasion.

But angry? When I get angry, I log off and go do something else-- being angry isn't healthy. It's better to remove yourself from the source of all that anger.

Alas, if only our "leadership" in Washington could do as well...
Click to expand...
I may have used wrong words, and that is maybe lack of english language knowledge :) I do not see you as a angry person, but some of your messages could be seen as if you was angry.
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
viole said:
Alright then. If that is true, then the day after pill does not abort anything. Not sure what our pro-lifers think with their obsession for conception and such.

So, lets move to 10 days. Any problems with that?

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...
This could be accomplished simply by inducing normal menstruation--a woman has not missed her first period yet.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Bob the Unbeliever said:
I have found that pro-lifers seem to think that once the magical sperm hits the equally magical ovum, that instantly a fully-formed tiny little human being appears.

Replete with a tiny human soul.

And has microscopic fingers, toes, organs, the whole bit....

And, like a miniature Aquaman? Swims by pumping it's tiny arms and legs, to find a Magical Home in the welcoming Uterus-- not unlike a Magical Garden.

Or something very much like that scenario...

It'd be laughable, except that they are seriously intent on punishing women stopping all abortions--even the ones they only imagine.
Click to expand...

Well, and that is exactly why atheists are so interested to debunk such superstitions. Because they affect my rights on account of imaginary beings like gods and souls.

By the way, if all kids embryos etc, get a risk free ticket to an eternity of bliss, what is the problem? I believe that under that premise, it would be highly moral to abort.

Ciao

- viole
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Bob the Unbeliever said:
I have found that pro-lifers seem to think that once the magical sperm hits the equally magical ovum, that instantly a fully-formed tiny little human being appears.
Click to expand...
What a ridiculous strawman.

Gametes aren't magical, they're a fairly well understood fact of our biology. And every human being begins when two merge to form a new individual, an individual who ends at death.
Tom
 
T

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Bob the Unbeliever said:
Ironically? I have run into the oddball atheist, who firmly believes there are such things as "souls".
Being an atheist simply means no belief in god(s). Souls are quite another matter, it would seem..
Click to expand...

Interesting. So did those "oddball" atheists believe that their souls (a) begin to exist at conception and/or (b) survive death (i.e. continue to exist somewhere in the Cosmos?
 
shmogie

shmogie

Well-Known Member
viole said:
Can be discussed, but I will take it at face value.

So, nothing against abortion if it is done, say, one day after conception?

Ciao

- viole
Click to expand...
Morally, I believe life begins at conception. However, I have no right to demand that anyone adhere to my moral position.

Legally, one cannot kill another person. A clump of non specialized cells is extremely difficult to justify as a person.

After the first trimester, the baby is obviously human, a person. As a person, it has guaranteed rights, the primary one being the right to life.

So, my legal position would be abortion on demand for the first three months of the pregnancy, none after that except for direct, documented, certified threats to the mothers health or life.

90 days to slaughter at will seems more than adequate.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
shmogie said:
Morally, I believe life begins at conception. However, I have no right to demand that anyone adhere to my moral position.

Legally, one cannot kill another person. A clump of non specialized cells is extremely difficult to justify as a person.

After the first trimester, the baby is obviously human, a person. As a person, it has guaranteed rights, the primary one being the right to life.

So, my legal position would be abortion on demand for the first three months of the pregnancy, none after that except for direct, documented, certified threats to the mothers health or life.

90 days to slaughter at will seems more than adequate.
Click to expand...

Well, then I have no issue with you, since you seem to keep your beliefs separate from secular law.

Anyway, technically, you do not need to believe that human life begins at conception. That is a biological fact, I believe. However, human life does not entail personhood automatically.

Ciao

- viole
 
shmogie

shmogie

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
I sincerely wish that people who oppose elective abortions would get better educated about what Planned Parenthood actually does in the 21st century.

PP not only delivers women's healthcare without regard for ability to pay, they prevent more crisis pregnancies and therefore more abortions than all the preaching and "abstinence only" education ever done.

If you really oppose irresponsible heterosex and the abortions that result, or the badly raised kids, or the taxpayers dollars spent supporting those kids,

SUPPORT PLANNED PARENTHOOD!

They actually prevent abortions, instead of just talking about punishing people afterwards.
Tom
Click to expand...
Planned parenthood is simply an abortion mill. It does, in some places, at certain times provide some other services, but itś foundation has always been abortion.
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
shmogie said:
Planned parenthood is simply an abortion mill. It does, in some places, at certain times provide some other services, but itś foundation has always been abortion.
Click to expand...
Planned Parenthood in Washington State did not start providing abortions until 1990. Before that they referred those needing abortions out to private providers. They started out providing pap smears, breast cancer screening, and birth control in the late 1960's, which they still provide.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
shmogie said:
Planned parenthood is simply an abortion mill. It does, in some places, at certain times provide some other services, but itś foundation has always been abortion.
Click to expand...
This is flat out wrong.
I sincerely wish that people who oppose elective abortions would get better educated about what Planned Parenthood actually does.
I know people who work at PP, and they generally view an abortion as a failure of PP to reach their goal.
Tom
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
crossfire said:
Planned Parenthood in Washington State did not start providing abortions until 1990. Before that they referred those needing abortions out to private providers. They started out providing pap smears, breast cancer screening, and birth control in the late 1960's, which they still provide.
Click to expand...
That's about the same time that the Indiana PP started. The main reason was that the abortion providers were pretty bad, generally. Too much like that horror in Philadelphia.
Tom
 
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