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Pro-Life by most really mean Pro-Birth

Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Revoltingest said:
Killing is just an unavoidable part of life.
We only get to choose which lives we kill.
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When walking in forest, there might be ants or other insects under the surface this is true, But killing with intention is wrong deed acording to buddhist teaching. Non intentional, meaning if one was to step on an ant and ofcourse not intend to kill it bcause one do not see it, that will still accumulate karma but less then if it was done on purpose to end its life. So yes even when we sit on a sofa or other surfaces there will be bacteria or germs there we do not mean to kill
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Amanaki said:
When walking in forest, there might be ants or other insects under the surface this is true, But killing with intention is wrong deed acording to buddhist teaching. Non intentional, meaning if one was to step on an ant and ofcourse not intend to kill it bcause one do not see it, that will still accumulate karma but less then if it was done on purpose to end its life. So yes even when we sit on a sofa or other surfaces there will be bacteria or germs there we do not mean to kill
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For us non-buddhists, it's more complex.
Intentional killing could be either OK or wrong, all depending upon circumstances.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
shmogie said:
I agree totally.After the first trimester, a baby is a baby
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Can be discussed, but I will take it at face value.

So, nothing against abortion if it is done, say, one day after conception?

Ciao

- viole
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
This is painfully stupid.
I am absolutely certain that my daughter-in-law is not gestating an elephant.
Tom
Click to expand...

But it's quite accurate. At the beginning, human fetuses are not yet human.

No more than a sample of live skin is-- there is a potential to become human.

Yes-- even with the skin, cloning is quite possible. We have proof that cloning from skin can be done, and works.

So far as we know? Nobody's tried it with humans.... that we know of.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Amanaki said:
As i stated and as buddha has said before me, animals should not be killed for food or any other reason, Plants/flower can be eaten, but not everything is psossible to eat. Will it give karma to those who do eat plants? yes some, but in human form we do need to eat something, and stones can not be eaten (as far as i know)

Killing means taking life like human beings, animals, birds, fish. insects
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So you use MAGIC to decide which is okay to "murder" and which isn't?

Have you ever tried talking to a carrot? Or a fern? Do you know, that there are experiments that show all plants respond to voice communication in some way?

What makes you assume that killing of a plant's offspring (fruit) is okay with the plant?

Magic?

Your distinction seems quite arbitrary to me.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Amanaki said:
Do you know anything about spiritual way of life? or are you just angry at anyone who do not live the way you do?
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LOL! Angry? Projecting your own inner anger because you cannot manage to be convincing enough?

Oh. My. that's quite funny!

And by "spiritual" I have to assume you are, again, referring to "magic"?
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
As i said, as a human being we do need to eat something. And since Buddha did allow the eating of plantes that is what i can do.

I know you do not belive in religious way of life, i do respect that. and if you feel killing is ok, that is your choice and view, and i respect that. But to me killing of human beings and animals/fish/birds and insects is something i can not do. If you disagree with me on this i can live with that.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Amanaki said:
You follow human political law,
Buddha gave the 5 precepts the once i follow
1. I take as a training precept to refrain from taking life.
2. I take as a training precept to refrain from taking that which is not freely given.
3. I take as a training precept to refrain from sexual misconduct.
4. I take as a training precept to refrain from unwise/unskillful speech.
5. I take as a training precept to refrain from intoxication that clouds the mind.

Political laws that do not contradict this is ok for me to follow too, But since i mostly never leave the home i can still manage the day with the 5 precepts
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I do not respect your Magic Man. Sorry about that.

I don't believe in magic, you see-- so Buddha was just a man. No better, no worse, than any other man.

Did not Buddha once observe, that "If you meet Buddha along the road, you must Kill Him At Once"

I do believe he was credited with saying that, or something very much like that.
 
crossfire

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
viole said:
Can be discussed, but I will take it at face value.

So, nothing against abortion if it is done, say, one day after conception?

Ciao

- viole
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It wouldn't be an abortion, because pregnancy does not start until the blastocyte attaches, usually 6 to 8 days after conception. This is why emergency contraception is not an abortifacient--it simply discourages the blastocyte from implanting and causing pregnancy.
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Bob the Unbeliever said:
LOL! Angry? Projecting your own inner anger because you cannot manage to be convincing enough?

Oh. My. that's quite funny!

And by "spiritual" I have to assume you are, again, referring to "magic"?
Click to expand...
I hold no anger toward anyone, and i have no need to convince you that my way is the only way(because there are many ways to live our lifes). I can only speak for what i stand for, and as i said earlier, if you disagree i can live with that.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
crossfire said:
It wouldn't be an abortion, because pregnancy does not start until the blastocyte attaches, usually 6 to 8 days after conception. This is why emergency contraception is not an abortificant--it simply discourages the blastocyte from implanting and causing pregnancy.
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Alright then. If that is true, then the day after pill does not abort anything. Not sure what our pro-lifers think with their obsession for conception and such.

So, lets move to 10 days. Any problems with that?

Ciao

- viole
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Amanaki said:
As i said, as a human being we do need to eat something. And since Buddha did allow the eating of plantes that is what i can do.

I know you do not belive in religious way of life, i do respect that. and if you feel killing is ok, that is your choice and view, and i respect that. But to me killing of human beings and animals/fish/birds and insects is something i can not do. If you disagree with me on this i can live with that.
Click to expand...

I do respect non-magic Buddhism, I really do. I especially appreciate the push for non-violence.

We so need more non-violent solutions in our society-- people are too quick to use death-dealing tools as a "solution" to "problems".

That being said, I also appreciate that you cannot use "passive protest" if those you are protesting are willing to shoot you in the head, just for laughs, or worse-- out of indifference.

So I do think there is value in not being a martyr. We have a sufficient number of martyrs, and to spare-- we don't need any more.

For I have found, that all too often, the "martyrs" were not the people responsible for what was going on. It's never those at the very top of the heap, who are martyred, is it?

 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Amanaki said:
I hold no anger toward anyone, and i have no need to convince you that my way is the only way(because there are many ways to live our lifes). I can only speak for what i stand for, and as i said earlier, if you disagree i can live with that.
Click to expand...

Then why the projection that I am am angry? I do enjoy writing, with an emotional style, and I do get excited on occasion.

But angry? When I get angry, I log off and go do something else-- being angry isn't healthy. It's better to remove yourself from the source of all that anger.

Alas, if only our "leadership" in Washington could do as well...
 
Spirit of Light

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Bob the Unbeliever said:
I do respect non-magic Buddhism, I really do. I especially appreciate the push for non-violence.

We so need more non-violent solutions in our society-- people are too quick to use death-dealing tools as a "solution" to "problems".

That being said, I also appreciate that you cannot use "passive protest" if those you are protesting are willing to shoot you in the head, just for laughs, or worse-- out of indifference.

So I do think there is value in not being a martyr. We have a sufficient number of martyrs, and to spare-- we don't need any more.

For I have found, that all too often, the "martyrs" were not the people responsible for what was going on. It's never those at the very top of the heap, who are martyred, is it?
Click to expand...
I hope i will not be seen as martyr :) because that is not what i seek. i can only live my life the way i see as best for how i try to live. But i do like good discussions, and even we do not agree on everything it was interesting :)
 
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