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Rise in popularity of interest in old European religion and heritage
- Thread starter David1967
- Start date
Each challenged the sensibility of the times. But today's entertainment is completely different....today we have virtual reality.....when you see acts of bloodshed in a comic, in an old movie, or on TV in decades past....there was no real blood, everyone knew it was fake....but today when you can play a game and run people over with your car, or shoot them with a powerful weapon and see the carnage as virtual reality, something in the brain shuts down compassion. What does it take to shock us anymore?....and kids who have grown up with VR in their gaming don't seem to demonstrate any care or compassion for others any more
Is this a good thing?
Since those primitive tendencies are the product of uneducated minds who just wanted to kill for the sake of a piece of land or their personal glory, and they would plunder and pillage and rape because their gods taught them nothing better.....shouldn't we expect more in this so called enlightened age? We are not barbarians are we?
Why do humans hold such a fascination with violence? All entertainment does is cater to the appetites of the masses. What sort of appetite do they have now?....and why? Are we progressing or regressing in our morality?
I remember when a child read a book that contained some scary scenarios, that scene in the child's mind was modified according to that child's imagination. It was confined to something that could be limited by each child's imagination....each one reading that book had a different movie playing in their heads. But what do we have now? Nothing is left to imagination any more.....it is graphically portrayed in all its gory detail....how is that not damaging?
Regardless of one's religious beliefs, the one thing remained a constant throughout the generations of the past was a concept of good and bad that was shared by the majority. That is the world I grew up in. Standards were set by society and deviation was seen as rebellion. Immorality existed but it was not promoted like it is now. Families were tight knit, and kids grew up with their full siblings and the same Mum and Dad. Today we don't see that. Everything it seems is broken.....and not fixable.
I don't really understand the "cry wolf" bit, but if you come from an era where a man was as good as his word....helping your neighbor was a given, and the small, simple things that families enjoyed did not need a bunch of money to facilitate....then you see where we are now.....if I didn't know what God was doing.....I wouldn't want to live on this earth. I hate what people have become and what the future will hold if man is left to his own devices much longer. The world is a beautiful place, but the people who rule it are not beautiful at all.
You might be happy here, but this is not the world I was programmed for. I am an alien in this world.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
I don't think the recent prominence of the Thor franchise, and may be to a lesser extent Game of Thrones, have hurt the phenomenonI blame Marvel Comics
On a serious note I recently read Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology. A very good retelling of a series of tales.
Actually, I contend this. Yes, special effects have greatly enhanced through the generations and advancements in techniques and technology. That said, in the makeup field, figures like Jack Pierce and even Lon Chaney Sr (aka the man of 1000 faces) are still renowned and seen as the gold standard yet to be topped. And this was during the 1910s until the 1940s. The makeup for the Wolfman is still more realistic than many productions today. What Lon Chaney accomplished with some putty and wire is enough to frighten children even to this day. (Though it must be said that the disfigured Phantom may have hit a little too close to home for many people at the time, considering the facial disfigurements many soldiers had when they returned from WWI.) Which is pretty impressive.
And every generation claims the younglings lack compassion and care for others. My grandfather said the same of my father, who grew up during the great depression. Over 70 years ago. Please forgive my eyeroll.
VR is new and still experimenting. But have you seen a lot of the early movies of the adolescence of film? Terrifying and experimental, even by today's standards. I remember being kept awake as a child by quite a few lol
Worth a look for anyone interested in cinema.
We are, we no longer do those things and rely on fiction. By definition we have evolved.
Also The Roman Empire is something we still build upon even to this day, in terms of architecture, art and even philosophy. They didn't exactly sit around knitting all day. Very "pillagy" by today's standards.
Besides, the instincts will never leave us. They might be subdued, but they will never be gone. Be thankful there's an outlet that allows continued peace.
We have remained fairly static, in all honesty. Probably a little softer, when taken into the context of human history.
You want to talk depraved? All right, ever hear of the Libertine movement? For god's sake, the most prominent member is the literal namesake for the word "sadism" in the English language!
They weren't some product of violent video games. They existed during the 1700s. Do tell me what were they playing? What were they listening to? What were they watching? Cinema, video games and rock 'n' roll wouldn't be invented for another 2 centuries.
Lol, the imagination is considered the most visceral tool in Horror even to this day. That said, I needed no imagination when reading of the plagues sent down by God. I needed no imagination for the horrifying depiction of crucifixion. (Christ or otherwise.) Granted Mel Gibson went a little too far in his torture porn. Though the suspension of disbelief did crack when he went down that road. Because you''re aware that the blood and makeup is fake and over the top. But if you think showing everything is worse than imagining it, you have no idea the power of human imagination even has. If anything movie makers are weak in comparison.
Meh, my father would disagree. He grew up in the horror that was the Great Depression. I doubt the high infant mortality rate and subsequent numbness that carried with it, made life all that rosy during the Victorian Era for people actually living in it. We adapt to what we're given, that's just how life is.
It used to be improper for a woman to speak out of turn. To speak against child marriage was to be in conflict with the times. To treat the mentally disabled with respect was once seen as ludicrous, since they belonged in the sideshows in olden times.
Screw the past values. They would have me chained to a kitchen, popping out babies that may or may not have died agonizing deaths in my hands. It would have me shun and hate my friends and family for being gay. It would have me spit at criminals and have me baying for their blood when ostensibly convicted for stealing a loaf of bread when starving. It would have me married at age 12-15 and giving birth at an age that would be dangerous given how puberty works in our species. It would have me be a delicate dumb flower ever reliant on violent men who could beat me within an inch of my life without anyone caring. Give me modernity, warts and all, any day.
Y'all need to crack open a history book, mate.
Cry wolf refers to honestly the most famous folklore tale ever conceived. The boy who cried wolf. Surely you encountered that as a kid? Come on, how did you get through preschool without hearing that tale?
I was basically pointing out that for the last 1000 years or so, people have been decrying the moral decay of society. Hell even Plato wrote about that, and he lived before Jesus! The corrupting influence of entertainment is something beaten to death and then some. From Shakespeare to Mozart to Leonardo Di Vinci, to Dante (for some reason.) And every single time, these very people reveal their own ignorance of anything remotely related to art.
I take what I can get. I'm very thankful for the lack of traditional child marriages, the medical treatment of the mentally ill, the condemnation of domestic abuse (which is a very recent phenomenon indeed) and indoor plumbing. But if you long for the days of old, the real days of old. Meh, each their own.
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I agree. If anything it has piqued interest in looking into the real history and folklore.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
If only. I fear that for most people, all it ever piques is an interest that gets as far as the homogenised, bowdlerised, popularised version. There's a fairly standard trajectory *drags out medieval re-enactor soapbox* Humans like what's cool and easy. Cinema has a lot to apologise for, and you'd be astonished by the number of people who think they have degree level understanding of historical periods based on nonsense. Highlander spawned a generation of people who though Scot/Japanese weeaboo fusion was a real thing, and don't even get me started on Braveheart. People will in all seriousness refer to Viking Urnes style artwork as "Celtic" (mispronouncing it 'seltic') and wonder why you cringe. I once had a conversation with a MGP who informed me, in all seriousness, that his "Viking family crest" was a lion rampant (he meant a coat of arms, which Vikings didn't use, 'family crests' aren't a thing any way, and AFAIK lions, rampant or otherwise, are unknown in period Viking art), then he got ****ty when I gently corrected him, and was later seen telling the same nonsense unaltered (and before anyone ping me for being pedantic, this was at a living history event, where teaching MGPs and correcting misconceptions was the stated mission. If I encountered the same thing today, older, more ennui-prone me would just smile and nod).
It's a phenomenon that predates popular cinema, too. Look at the Egyptian craze that swept popular culture in Europe after Carter opened Tutankhamun's tomb.
I would. Because "Neopagan" white nationalism is widely denounced by the actual Neopagan community and white supremacists co-opt Pagan symbolism (just like the original Nazis did) and in reality have little to nothing to do with us in the vast majority of cases. Please see for example - https://wildhunt.org/2018/07/why-does-white-supremacist-odinism-thrive-in-prisons.html
The impetus behind contemporary Paganism is precisely the opposite of "exoticism" in most cases. People who are attracted to reviving indigenous polytheistic religious traditions are not looking for something "exotic" they are looking for something to reconnect with the land and their ancestors.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
I respectfully disagree with your assessment in most cases.
I wonder how much of it is because of feeling disenchanted with the current faith, which is mostly Christianity. If the thought occurs that maybe the old ways were better, or at least had something to offer, then why not? It may also have something to do with the interest in genealogy piquing interest. In India, we have ghar wapsi, which is basically deconversion. People with ancestors who were once converted to Islam or Christianity from Hinduism can return. There's just new knowledge out there, and non-Abrahamic faiths can look just as attractive.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
In terms of recent years (interest in native European gods and religion has been around for a long time, particularly within literature) widespread access to the internet probably helps. People can not only research various forms of polytheism with a few clicks but can find communities with ease. Since Paganism tends not to be all that visible to anybody who isn't actively searching for it, the ability to rapidly share information makes a big difference.
I think this is very real, especially with the availability of things like "23 and me" and others that trace a persons DNA. My sons girlfriend actually got him one of those a couple years ago. There were no surprises but the results did verify what I had told him regarding our ancestry.
anna.
but mostly it's the same
Even if you see them as co-opting, and even if some of you denounce the white supremacists among you, the link is there, and it's clear. The fact that some of you have seen the need to denounce them shows that some of you are aware of the problem.
Most certainly I know people who would love to know the religion of their ancestors. I'm not personally interested one iota.
You can disagree, or you can learn something about a religious movement you probably don't know much about. What I mentioned is both the scholarly consensus and the pervasive atmosphere of the movement if you are a participant in it. So much so that I'm not sure I can name a Pagan I've met - or an author/writer I have read - who has come to these paths because they want something "exotic." While this was probably not your intent, suggesting we're interested in it because we want something "exotic" is what cultural outsiders say to dismiss us as a serious or legitimate religious movement. It is tiresome enough that I will call it out as erroneous when I see it. This isn't to say the exotic has no place in the movement, but seeking that it is not the driving impetus of it.
Erebus
Well-Known Member
I blame Marvel Comics
On a serious note I recently read Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology. A very good retelling of a series of tales.
I enjoyed Neil Gaiman's book too.
Stephen Fry's books Mythos and Heroes are worth looking at for anybody interested in Greek mythology. They're more comedic but still very informative as well as entertaining.
Finally, Celtic Mythology: Tales of Gods, Goddesses and Heroes by Philip Freeman is an excellent introduction to Irish (and some Welsh) mythology. Just one word of warning to anybody looking into Celtic mythology ... the way a name looks like it should be pronounced is almost never how it's actually supposed to sound.