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Are you closed minded?

shunyadragon

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Milton Platt said:
Not quite what I was getting at, but my fault for not being more precise.
Experiences require interpretation, hence you may objectively have had an experience. The subjectivity is in how you interpret the nature of the experience.
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Disagree, there is a difference between an objective and subjective experience, before we consider the influence of human judgements. An objective experience is a direct observation of our physical existence that is repeatable and confirmable by others, such as the discovery of a mammoth fossil. A subjective experience is of the mind only and not verifiable by independent observation, for example someone who claims to have a conversation with God. Subjective judgements may be described of observations such as, which flavor of ice cream tastes best. Consensus of subjective experiences can be achieved by taking polls as to what ice cream is the favorite in a given population.
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
shunyadragon said:
Disagree, there is a difference between an objective and subjective experience, before we consider the influence of human judgements. An objective experience is a direct observation of our physical existence that is repeatable and confirmable by others, such as the discovery of a mammoth fossil. A subjective experience is of the mind only and not verifiable by independent observation, for example someone who claims to have a conversation with God. Subjective judgements may be described of observations such as, which flavor of ice cream tastes best. Consensus of subjective experiences can be achieved by taking polls as to what ice cream is the favorite in a given population.
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Yes, I agree. I thought that the person I was commenting to meant a "personal experience" in the religious sense. Was that not so?
 
Milton Platt

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
SalixIncendium said:
But would you not agree that the degree in which such and of each experience varies dependent on the experience itself?

I just took a sip of my coffee, and it was hot. Though it's not verifiable by another that I just brewed it and took a sip, I would say there isn't much left to interpretation of the experience.

I had a dream last night that my daughter was involved in a deadly car accident after having an intense experience with her boyfriend. Upon waking from the dream, I wasn't sure what it meant, so I texted her to see if she was okay. She had not been in a car accident, but had just had a pretty intense and loud fight with her boyfriend. I can interpret the dream to mean that I was somehow connected to my daughters fight or that the dream was a result of someone I know being severely injured (one of my managers had an accident at work that resulted in him losing his fingertip).

Do you see the difference? Though I am unable to verify my experience with another person, the former is much less open to subjective interpretation than the latter, thought both were very real experiences.
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Sure.
I agree with what you say about your experience with the hot coffee. But it is verifiable in that we have shared knowledge of what coffee is, how it is made, and the fact that it is hot when first made. It is reproducible.
Your dreams are not reproducible. Further, Your dreams do not exactly correlate to reality. Losing a fingertip could be a bit traumatic, but it is certainly not a severe injury. As to the dream about your daughter, it does not correlate at all. You are trying to shoe-horn it in. You were interpreting it to fit the narrative you wanted, thereby making it subjective. Your dream was objectively real. Your daughter's fight with her boyfriend was objectively real to her. It is the linkage you are trying to make that is subjective.
 
SalixIncendium

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Milton Platt said:
Sure.
I agree with what you say about your experience with the hot coffee. But it is verifiable in that we have shared knowledge of what coffee is, how it is made, and the fact that it is hot when first made. It is reproducible.
Your dreams are not reproducible. Further, Your dreams do not exactly correlate to reality. Losing a fingertip could be a bit traumatic, but it is certainly not a severe injury. As to the dream about your daughter, it does not correlate at all. You are trying to shoe-horn it in. You were interpreting it to fit the narrative you wanted, thereby making it subjective. Your dream was objectively real. Your daughter's fight with her boyfriend was objectively real to her. It is the linkage you are trying to make that is subjective.
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The dream was an extreme comparison. Let's try another. Let's keep the coffee experience and compare that to the fight my daughter had with her boyfriend.

You state that the experience was objective to her, which I am in agreement with, inasmuch as the experience of the coffee being hot is objective to me. However, the the latter is verifiable by means of being reproducible, but the former is not. While both would be subjective to you, would there not be a varying degree in how subjectivity between the two given the former's greater interpretive value and it not being verifiable or reproducible?
 
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