That Whole Homosexual--Sin Thing

Deeje said:

When indoctrination governs belief instead of Bible truth, it sets up roadblocks to reevaluation of our concepts. When we want to believe something, we will hang onto it in spite of evidence to the contrary.



As one who was raised with Christendom's doctrines, I find that rather amusing. I was convinced that humans were endowed with an immortal soul too, and when I first came into contact with JW's that concept was the hardest to accept, but the easiest to dismiss just by reading the Bible. Learning about what the ancient Jews believed about death, and reading about Jesus raising Lazarus, I realised that the dead are "sleeping"....in a state of complete inactivity. Where was Lazarus before Jesus resurrected him? (John 11:11-14) If he was in heaven, then Jesus did him no favours by bringing him back to this life, only to die again. But by resurrecting him, Jesus changed his whole destiny. Do you know how?



Since I have no belief in all Christians going to heaven, it is very apparent from reading the Bible that a relatively small group of faithful ones will join Jesus as Kings and Priests in heaven (Revelation 20:6) but the majority of humankind will live forever on the earth, just as God originally intended.

When Daniel speaks about the resurrection, he too is talking about an earthly resurrection. Since both the "righteous and the unrighteousness" have been "sleeping", both willl be brought back to human life under the rulership of God's Kingdom here on earth, some will be already be faithful ones, but the unrighteous will be under a period of judgment in order to prove to God that they can qualify for permanent residency. If they fail to bring their lives into harmony with God's requirements, then the everlasting contempt will be expressed when God consigns them to eternal death.



Everlasting death IS everlasting punishment....who said it was spent in consciousness? A person has to be alive and conscious to suffer.....but according to Solomon, "the dead are conscious of nothing".....they don't think, feel or plan anything. (Ecclesiastes 9:5; 10) The ancient Jews did not believe in an afterlife. Resurrection meant being called from your grave which is why you will see Jewish cemeteries with such ornate tombs.
Having one's body thrown into Gehenna, meant not having a burial tomb from which to be resurrected. It was a symbol of eternal death.....not worthy of life at all. Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to Gehenna.



Does a person need to be alive and conscious to experience torment? Are the dead alive? Not according to the OT. (Psalm 146:4; Psalm 115:17) Jesus was Jewish, so he had no belief in an immortal soul. It was adopted from Platonic Greek ideas. It is found in nearly all false worship....but not in ancient Judaism, so it was not believed by the first Christians, who were all Jewish and who wrote the Christian scriptures.

What exactly is "the smoke of their torment" that ascends forever?
The word in Greek for "tormenter" had reference to a jailer who tormented his charges in the dungeons. To suggest that a loving God would keep souls alive in some kind of fiery dungeon to torment them forever is to do him a grave injustice. Satan would do something like that....not God. It is totally contrary to his nature....and totally contrary to his justice. Not something he would ever contemplate. (Jeremiah 7:31)

When fire is used to symbolise complete destruction, we can imagine the aftermath of a wildfire that has decimated a wide area and destroyed many homes.....the smoke ascending from the ashes is a reminder of what happened. It is not the torment that lasts forever but the smoke or memory of it.

I believe that the whole concept of "hellfire" is satanically inspired. It engenders fear, not love.

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Dan Mellis said:

Well it sounds like the Philippines is almost there in terms of equal rights and civil freedom! If only you allowed gay marriage, divorce, sex changes, abortions and porn...

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Kangaroo Feathers said:

The Bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual.

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Dan Mellis said:

Well it sounds like the Philippines is almost there in terms of equal rights and civil freedom! If only you allowed gay marriage, divorce, sex changes, abortions and porn...

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A famous Filipina celebrity was formerly a woman and under went gender reassignment is Charice Pempengco
Jake Zyrus - Wikipedia

I think she was better off before - she had more fans and more success here and abroad until the transformation.

We Never Know said:

Dude. Get put of your box. Was God an argument from ignorance 3500 years ago? That is reality. Get out of your safety box and realise those people in their time were just as much on top of their game and as smart as we are in our time.

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columbus said:

The Philippines is among the top destinations for pedophiles on sex tourism.
Because the phillipinoes don't take very good care of their children. The legal age of consent is like, 6 or something. Parents regularly rent out their kids.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Tom

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Zita said:

oh really? If the bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual then what's this scripture from the bible all about? Wow,somethings never cease to amaze me!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.

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Zita said:

I don't even believe in the bible and yet I knew that "hellfire" is not satanically inspired it is biblical scripture,and also scriptures saying people will be thrown into a fiery hell to be tormented for all eternity. whew; what a Loving thought from the word of God! still think it's satanically inspired?
Matt 5:22
But I tell you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. And whoever says to his brother, 'Fool!' will be subject to the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, 'You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.
Matt 18:9
And if your eye causes your downfall, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, rather than to have two eyes and be thrown into hellfire!

Matthew 13:40-43 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Isaiah 66:16
For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.

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Spartan said:

Thanks for your views but I'll stick with what I previously presented.

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Zita said:

oh really? If the bible doesn't say there's anything wrong with being homosexual then what's this scripture from the bible all about? Wow,somethings never cease to amaze me!!
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Don’t you know that the unrighteous will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be deceived: No sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, or anyone practicing homosexuality, no thieves, greedy people, drunkards, verbally abusive people, or swindlers will inherit God’s kingdom.

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Skwim said:

Kangaroo Feathers seems to be occupied elsewhere right now, so let me explain what I think he's talking about.

Being a homosexual

ho·mo·sex·u·al
/ˌhōməˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/
adjective
adjective: homosexual

1. 1.(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
   • involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the same sex.
     "homosexual desire"

noun
noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals
1.a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

​

Is not the same as homosexual behavior, which the Bible speaks about.

Homosexual behavior is sexual contact between two people or animals of the same sex, i.e., two males or between two females. Homosexual behavior can vary from non-consequential, incidental acts to full-fledged homosexual acts.
Source: Conservapedia

​

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

.

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Skwim said:

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

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MJFlores said:

Numbers 15:39 New International Version (NIV)
You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the Lord, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by chasing after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes.

1 John 2:16 New International Version (NIV)
For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world.


You may say that the Bible did not say this, but it was
Then you may say the Bible said this, then it wasn't
You really don't know the Bible, Skwim
I think you should give up the whole thing, if you are tired of trying
But I won't stop you. I would cheer for you.

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Skwim said:

Kangaroo Feathers seems to be occupied elsewhere right now, so let me explain what I think he's talking about.

Being a homosexual

ho·mo·sex·u·al
/ˌhōməˈsekSH(o͞o)əl/
adjective
adjective: homosexual

1. 1.(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.
   • involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the same sex.
     "homosexual desire"

noun
noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals
1.a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

​

Is not the same as homosexual behavior, which the Bible speaks about.

Homosexual behavior is sexual contact between two people or animals of the same sex, i.e., two males or between two females. Homosexual behavior can vary from non-consequential, incidental acts to full-fledged homosexual acts.
Source: Conservapedia

​

The Bible doesn't censure anyone for being attracted to someone of the same sex, but does come down hard on any sexual expression of it.
You may look, just don't touch.

.

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Kangaroo Feathers said:

Practicing homosexuality =/= "being homosexual".

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Spartan said:

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person. So if gays even lust in their hearts fantacizing about sex with a same sex individual, then they have already committed sexual immorality. And straight people the same thing if they fantacize / lust after someone who they are not married to. The same thing about murder. If, in your heart, you have fantacized about murdering someone you hate, then you've committed that sin. That's the principle in Matthew 5:28 because it's in the heart where sin is born: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander" Matthew 5:19).

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Kangaroo Feathers said:

Thank you.

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Spartan said:

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person. So if gays even lust in their hearts fantacizing about sex with a same sex individual, then they have already committed sexual immorality. And straight people the same thing if they fantacize / lust after someone who they are not married to. The same thing about murder. If, in your heart, you have fantacized about murdering someone you hate, then you've committed that sin. That's the principle in Matthew 5:28 because it's in the heart where sin is born: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander" Matthew 5:19).

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Spartan said:

There's a principle in Matthew 5:28 ("But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart") that also applies to unmarried straights and gays who would lust in their hearts for another person.

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Skwim said:

In a post in another thread it was mentioned that god considers gay sex a sin. Nothing new. Everyone knows it, but it got me wondering why. What is so wrong about an act, which only brings pleasure and hurts no one, that god considers it a sin? So much so, in fact, that if one engages in homosexual sex god will bar such an unrepentant or ignorant sinner from Heaven.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (ESV)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
​

While, as I understand it, it's no sin to have a homosexual attachment to someone, as long as it isn't lustful I guess, it does imply that once pee pees touch or hoo-has meet it's all over. Think of it. Let the sexual organs of two homosexuals get as close as possible while still leaving breathing space between them and you're home free. BUT let the two touch for just a fraction of a second and god will have picked up on it and punched your ticket to hell.

I know the Bible doesn't explain why god detests homosexual sex in particular---although "denial" does come to mind---but shouldn't there be an obvious reason for it? Or does it all come down to invoking the old "God Works In Mysterious Ways" rationalization?


In any case, let's hear it people! The Reason God Detests Homosexual Sex Is BECAUSE:____________________________________________ .
(And "because It's icky" is not an acceptable answer.)

.

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Prestor John said:

The Reason God Detests [Homosexuality] (not just the act of gay sex) is BECAUSE : It frustrates/stagnates/halts the eternal progression of His children.

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