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Bibliolatry

PureX

Veteran Member
How prevalent do you think Bibliolatry is in the United States, using this definition:

"In Christianity, bibliolatry is used to describe extreme devotion to the Bible or to biblical inerrancy.[3] Supporters of biblical inerrancy point to passages (such as 2 Timothy 3:16–17) interpreted to say that the Bible, as received, is a complete source of what must be known about God."

Bibliolatry - Wikipedia
I don't have numbers, but I strongly suspect that it's a minimal percentage of overall Christians. They tend to be the most vocal, and most divisive, so the media really likes to focus on them. But in reality there are still a huge number of Christians in the world that do not make a false idol of their Bible.​
 

Zita

Solitary Eclectic Witch
I see it quite differently and see the Bible as God breathed

You are quite skeptical. But yes if an eternal God who made the world has spoken I should hear His words and live.[/QU
You have nothing but a book of myths written by men. Don't fear living or live thinning when death comes you will be rewarded. When death comes, you like me and everyone else will cease to exist. We will go back to the earth we came from. There is no ever after or reward of heaven.
If you believe different, give me evidence besides a book written by men that had a crappy life.
I may not agree with everything you have said but I do agree with you on the bible is a book of myths written by man!! I call it a storybook written by someone with a vivid imagination.I feel it is a tool for religions to control it's people !! so they don't reach higher heights then the religion itself, a way to make sure no one discovers the real Truth that " The Creator " has already given us great knowledge and powers to live in this Universe when he created us and he gave each one of us spiritual abilities to communicate with him and his spiritual realm to give us guidance and inspiration when we need it.
We don't have to live by the words written in a book by man.The book that wants us to believe we are born in sin and we all come short of the glory of God and only those who abide by the written word will make it into the kingdom of heaven,the rest will parish in fire filled hell for the rest of eternity. among other statements that are made that are negative and harsh.Really?What a loving"God" that is!! With as many scare tactics as the bible has it could be called "The Tale of horrors". Yep, I'll stick with "The Creator" I believe does ALL things in total Love and peace. Once again this is just my opinion,and what I believe to be true. I know there are loads of people who don't agree with me and will argue me down that I am wrong and I'm going straight to hell for believing as I do, and that's ok too; cause you are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions as well.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
OK... I don't think I have every met someone like that. Certainly if the "other authority" says, "It's ok to have an adulterous affair", I would be classified as an "Bibliolator". :D
Circular reasoning is not a way to prove anything, Bible or otherwise.

Circular reasoning is not a formal logical fallacy but a pragmatic defect in an argument whereby the premises are just as much in need of proof or evidence as the conclusion, and as a consequence the argument fails to persuade.

Circular reasoning - Wikipedia
  • I believe x to be true, therefore x is true, because I believe x is true.
  • I do not believe x is true, therefore x is not true, be cause I believe it to not be true.
I am uncertain to whether x is true or not true, therefore x is not determined to be true or false till further notice.

Which circular fallacy which is dependent on the others existence is valid!!???
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
  • I believe x to be true, therefore x is true, because I believe x is true.
  • I do not believe x is true, therefore x is not true, be cause I believe it to not be true.
I am uncertain to whether x is true or not true, therefore x is not determined to be true or false till further notice.

Which circular fallacy which is dependent on the others existence is valid!!???

Just saying that you cannot make a claim based on an unproven premise.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Just saying that you cannot make a claim based on an unproven premise.
We make claims constantly on invalid premises only do discover later they were invalid. We replace them with new premises convincing ourselves now we really know since at that moment we have no clue as to the invalid quality of our new premise. History, becomes legend, legend becomes myth is not just the domain of religion but a pattern. Although they seem hell bent on prefecting it at times especially at the myth level .
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How prevalent do you think Bibliolatry is in the United States, using this definition:

"In Christianity, bibliolatry is used to describe extreme devotion to the Bible or to biblical inerrancy.[3] Supporters of biblical inerrancy point to passages (such as 2 Timothy 3:16–17) interpreted to say that the Bible, as received, is a complete source of what must be known about God."

Bibliolatry - Wikipedia

Bibliolatry (from the Greek βιβλίον biblion, "book" and the suffix -λατρία -latria, "worship")[1][2] is the worship of a book.
This is a cult of literacy we call it CULTure. Debates on this particular forum really are about whose book is correct. It's nonsense but hell that's the fun part.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding what you're saying when you stated to believe in God you must believe in the bible, they go hand in hand. I very much believe in a Creator or Higher Power for the fact "we" exist, however I don't believe in "The Bible"and I don't believe in the bible version of "God".I just don't believe my Creator will kill his creations by natural disasters or judge me after my body dies and if I haven't lived in a certain way, he will cast me in a fiery pit for all eternity, or consider homosexuals unworthy of going to heaven or the idea you should fear "The Creator",and that he is jealous and who punishes you for wrong doings,put you through tests and trials to only make you strong and the list goes on and on.The bible doesn't describe a very loving Spirit to me at all. So I don't feel it all goes hand in hand.
What I am saying is that you do not need to elevate the Bible to infallibility in order to believe in God and accept Jesus Christ as your savior.

It is my opinion, and there are facts that support this, that elevating the Bible to infallibility is turning it into a false idol. That people do not recognize they are doing this, is not evidence that it is not being done. That people do not pray to the Bible or form a circle around it bowing to and swearing obedience to the Bible does not mean it has not become an object of worship equal to God for some.

We all have the right to believe as we choose.

The issues that arise come when some people decide that what they choose to believe is the only way to believe. For everyone. And they take steps beyond personal belief to achieve that idea. There are so many examples of where this leads that no one could list them all and most people can come up with their own list. The current example that interests me is the deification of the Bible to deny reality impacting education.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know the full context by which the tele-evangelist had said what he did, 'If Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong with this Book, I would turn my back upon Him and HOLD TO THE BOOK." So, I'd take a stab at it.

From that clip, to me the key phrase is, 'If Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong with this Book,


That's it! It couldn't be Jesus Himself!
If there's something wrong with the Book...... then the Book had lost its credibility.

Would the real Jesus discredit the Book that God Himself (who is Jesus as man), had given for us to follow? NO.

Jesus couldn't have been who He claimed He is , if He makes the Book (that prophecied about Him in the first place), to be unreliable. If Jesus had said that, then he couldn't have been a prophet for God. He would've been just another false teacher. That man who claimed to be Jesus would be the example of the very man that the real Jesus had warned us about....that many would come who'll use His name to lead others astray!

In that scenario - the tele-evangelist is only doing what should be done: hold on to the BOOK!
So if God told you not to deify the Bible, then you would turn from Him and do it anyway.

He has already told us not to do this.

And many have joined you in turning from Him.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Yet a secretary that takes dictation is considered the word from him/her that dictated it.

Inconsistencies and errors have all been explained. If one wants it to be in error, then any reason is a good reason. If, over time, a number is now in error because a single dot that is erased and then transcribed to the next copy (In Hebrew), then yes, there are errors. But that doesn't make it any less true to its message.
How do we know this was dictation. All that is claimed is inspired. James Doohan was not an engineer on a 23rd Century star ship, but he and the role he portrayed is credited with inspiring numerous people to become engineers. I know of a story of a group of those inspired people openly thanking Mr. Doohan for that inspiration at a convention.

Attempts have been made to explain inconsistencies and errors, but does that mean they are explained away? So these inconsistencies and errors do not exist and can be explained away with the wave of a hand and not other effort?

The message is the important part, but even that can be manipulated and used to deify the Bible.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't know the full context by which the tele-evangelist had said what he did, 'If Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong with this Book, I would turn my back upon Him and HOLD TO THE BOOK." So, I'd take a stab at it.

From that clip, to me the key phrase is, 'If Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong with this Book,


That's it! It couldn't be Jesus Himself!
If there's something wrong with the Book...... then the Book had lost its credibility.

Would the real Jesus discredit the Book that God Himself (who is Jesus as man), had given for us to follow? NO.

Jesus couldn't have been who He claimed He is , if He makes the Book (that prophecied about Him in the first place), to be unreliable. If Jesus had said that, then he couldn't have been a prophet for God. He would've been just another false teacher. That man who claimed to be Jesus would be the example of the very man that the real Jesus had warned us about....that many would come who'll use His name to lead others astray!

In that scenario - the tele-evangelist is only doing what should be done: hold on to the BOOK!
I find it interesting that you devote an entire thread to re-interpretation of the Bible to justify a Day/Age view of it, and here you seem to be defending it as inerrant. You do realize that an inerrant Bible cannot support a Day/Age view?
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Purely your hypothesis but quite unsupported. Dr. John G Lake believed it was inerrant and I hardly think you would say that he had a weak faith but rather a strong faith.

Your statement can be contradicted by the lives of many but you have every right to have your own opinion.
I have an opinion based on the evidence. Weakness of faith need not be total. A vigorous athlete can accomplish many feats while growing a cancer inside his or her body. No one would claim that their athletic skills were weak even as their body was.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
I don't know the full context by which the tele-evangelist had said what he did, 'If Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong with this Book, I would turn my back upon Him and HOLD TO THE BOOK." So, I'd take a stab at it.

From that clip, to me the key phrase is, 'If Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong with this Book,


That's it! It couldn't be Jesus Himself!
If there's something wrong with the Book...... then the Book had lost its credibility.

Would the real Jesus discredit the Book that God Himself (who is Jesus as man), had given for us to follow? NO.

Jesus couldn't have been who He claimed He is , if He makes the Book (that prophecied about Him in the first place), to be unreliable. If Jesus had said that, then he couldn't have been a prophet for God. He would've been just another false teacher. That man who claimed to be Jesus would be the example of the very man that the real Jesus had warned us about....that many would come who'll use His name to lead others astray!

In that scenario - the tele-evangelist is only doing what should be done: hold on to the BOOK!

I believe that you have just made my point for me. You are correct; the key phrase is "If Jesus Himself..." because it was not 'someone claiming to be Jesus, but Jesus Himself."

You see, jesus wrote nothing...except some scribles in the dirt that one time. We have nothing of Him except for what other people have written, and it has been shown that some of the scriptures in the NT were not written by the folks whose name has been attached to them.

We DO have problems with the NT; the Johanine comma, for instance, which is a group of three (two? I forget) verses which were added later from some margin notes written by a scribe. Purely human errors.

Humans are not perfect. We goof. Humans wrote the bible. If someone will turn away from Jesus Himself and 'hold to the book,' s/he is turning away from God and worshiping the writings of imperfect humans. Those who do this are losing both the value of the book....and God Himself.

So if Jesus Himself came down and told me that there was something wrong, I'd listen....and make the correction.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I may not agree with everything you have said but I do agree with you on the bible is a book of myths written by man!! I call it a storybook written by someone with a vivid imagination.I feel it is a tool for religions to control it's people !! so they don't reach higher heights then the religion itself, a way to make sure no one discovers the real Truth that " The Creator " has already given us great knowledge and powers to live in this Universe when he created us and he gave each one of us spiritual abilities to communicate with him and his spiritual realm to give us guidance and inspiration when we need it.
We don't have to live by the words written in a book by man.The book that wants us to believe we are born in sin and we all come short of the glory of God and only those who abide by the written word will make it into the kingdom of heaven,the rest will parish in fire filled hell for the rest of eternity. among other statements that are made that are negative and harsh.Really?What a loving"God" that is!! With as many scare tactics as the bible has it could be called "The Tale of horrors". Yep, I'll stick with "The Creator" I believe does ALL things in total Love and peace. Once again this is just my opinion,and what I believe to be true. I know there are loads of people who don't agree with me and will argue me down that I am wrong and I'm going straight to hell for believing as I do, and that's ok too; cause you are entitled to your own beliefs and opinions as well.


If you feel the Bible is a book of myths then the idolatry issue is moot for you. I think you should rethink but you're welcome to your faith investments good or bad.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Christ mentioned the story of Noah. What you think he thought are your own ideas. Christ was aware of the mythology of the people he preached to. He would know the value of the story, real or not. Using it would not be a lie. It would be reciting a parable to teach a lesson.

Not to get into the debate again, but there simply is no evidence that the Earth was flooded anytime in the last 20,000,000 years. But perhaps you think, knowing this, I should discard this knowledge and lie to myself, just to fit a certain view of Christianity?

Peter clarified that they did not preach or follow myths.

"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.: 1 peter 2:16
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
In short, you only know of god the creator because of the bible. Without the bible, you wouldn't know of god the creator.
They go hand in hand.

Largely true. The Christian faith is largely a word oriented faith, trusting in promises put forth in words. Jesus Himself is called 'the word of God'

But ultimately people who are believers are believers because of God's grace in opening their hearts and eyes and drawing them to Christ
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Peter clarified that they did not preach or follow myths.

"For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.: 1 peter 2:16
The Bible as its own authority is a circular argument.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
There is plenty evidence for a worldwide flood.
You're too dismissive

Worldwide Flood, Worldwide Evidence
All this has been debunked countless times. People cling to it out of ignorance and desire.

Fossils on mountains of different composition, age and lack of mixture between ancestral and derived fauna. The mixing issue has also been resolved.

The fact that there are wind-formed, dry land strata in between layers of water-formed strata. This cannot be resolved by a flood scenario.

How is land in the Atacama Desert, demonstrated not to have had standing water in 100's of thousands of years, explained by a global flood that demands that this land have been under water.

How does the flood explain the continuity of cultures that existed unscathed prior to and after the flood?

Nothing that has been offered as evidence of a global flood has held up. People that deify the Bible cling to these failed ideas as justification for their deification.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Largely true. The Christian faith is largely a word oriented faith, trusting in promises put forth in words. Jesus Himself is called 'the word of God'

But ultimately people who are believers are believers because of God's grace in opening their hearts and eyes and drawing them to Christ
True. But neither of us can objectively demonstrate our individual experiences and show that they were true or real.
 
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